Podcast ep 12.


community college, students, internationalization, faculty, international, populations, international students, campus, institution, piece, study, community colleges, important, create, global, education, interested, bas, defining, student affairs


Dr.Bas, Xiao Yun Sim, Stacye Thompson, Lixing Li


Xiao Yun Sim  00:00

Welcome everyone to the podcast of Global Connections CGDSD My name is Xiao Yun Sim, and I use the she/her pronouns and I am one of your hosts today. Joining me I’m really excited to introduce our new addition to the podcast Lixing Li. I’ll have her kick off and introduce herself.


Lixing Li  00:18

Hello everyone. My name is Lixing LI. I recently got elected to be one of the editors of the podcast and blog in CGDSD. Today we are very happy to have Stacye and Dr. Bas joining us. And Stacye is a 25 years veteran of international education in areas of immigration, admissions, Community Outreach and Education Abroad. She currently works as the coordinator of International Student Services at Jefferson State Community College while working on her doctorate in Educational Studies for diverse population at University of Alabama, Birmingham and Xiaoyun do wanna introduce Dr. Bas?


Xiao Yun Sim  01:00

Yeah joining us aside from Stacye, we have Dr. Bas. Dr. Bas holds a PhD in adult and higher education and currently works at the University of Alabama Birmingham as an assistant professor of higher education. Aside from her daytime job as an assistant professor, she also serves as the faculty in residence for our commission for global dimensions of student development. She is a proud product of a community college. So we are super excited to have both of them here with us today to explore more about the topic surrounding internationalization at the community college level. So let’s welcome both of them to the podcast. Stacye, do you want to share about your study?


Stacye Thompson  01:39

Before we really get into that, I want to talk about how I’ve worked with Dr. BAS because I’ve been a practitioner for 25 years in international education, but transitioning into an academic role is really different. And I think one of the reasons to be able to get to the point that I could do research was so critical because I was able to establish a connection with Dr. Bas, one of my faculty, I think it was spring of 2019 that she taught a comparative education class. And it was so exciting. She was a new faculty member. And that was the first class and my curriculum that was really specifically for international education. It was very eye opening. And she had a lens of social justice that I just really adored. And you know, I was nervous because the new faculty that like, even know how to talk to these new faculty present know this person. But she was so open. She was like, Oh, yeah, well, let’s talk and, and she was telling me about her own experience working as a DSO at a community college, we started having that real relational talk about our own experiences working as women in international education. And as part of that, so I took the plunge. It was a nerve racking experience to ask her to possibly be on my dissertation committee. And she’s actually my co-chair for my dissertation committee. And then we started looking at we kept talking, we had ideas, because we’re bouncing off each other. And that actually is what led to the study that you’re asking us about today. Because I would have never had the gumption, the nerve, to even think that I could do a study. Can you just go do it and having because like I said, as a practitioner, I’m very experienced, I mentor people, but to step into that academic room was I mean, I was having serious imposter syndrome. I’m like, why am I doing this? You know, and, and but she has been a great person to bounce off of because she’s been on that journey. She’s that she had good mentors, and she’s the become a great mentor and friend, through this process.


Dr.Bas  03:51

I’m going to add to that, like I really wanted to say how important it is for faculty to research with students and not just on their dissertation or their thesis work, but to create a space to do some research and let the students take the lead and, and Stacye has taken the lead on this work and it’s amazing work. So Stacye, tell them about what the work okay, yeah.


Stacye Thompson  04:13

So well, our conversations were because I didn’t start working at community college until 2014. Before that, I was assistant director at UAB as a matter of fact that basically I had 1000 students that I was doing F-1 and J-1 immigration advising for and stepping into the community college I had my own kind of culture shock because, you know, at the community college, you just don’t have the kind of resources that you have in a four year institutions are limited. You know, the resources are focused on localized and 2008 recession really hit the community colleges in my state very hard. So a lot of the things that they used to have like, you know, sports and tutoring and things like that. They dissolved within a couple of So when I started I came in, the student population was very low. They hadn’t had a DSO affordable one for almost six months. So we had to had to revitalize that program. But I just saw, I have never been to a community college that was not a product, Community College. So coming into this venue after having been in my f1 day one bubble, for so long, was incredible, because the Multicultural Student Body that we have represented here is so much greater, it’s so much more the community, in my opinion, because I have DACA students, I have first generation immigrants that, you know, came into the country three years ago, you know, coming from high school, and you know, but I also have my f1 international students, but it’s, I have this Menagerie, but I’m working more with the community than I ever did as an immigration adviser just being an immigration adviser. So one of the things that I started working on was growing not just the international student body, but also creating campus internationalization things. So my first thing because it was the one that like, didn’t get pushed back, was starting study abroad. So I’m in 2016, my institution started studying abroad. And you know, I work as an academic advisor and an immigration advisor in enrollment services. So I actually fit under Enrollment Services, which is very odd, because I’ve always been student affairs in the past. And so being in that integration, people are like, you’re going to do programming, but then our office started absorbing student activities. And so it started becoming more okay for me to start doing Student Affairs kind of things. So we managed to get study abroad off the ground, we did some faculty led to 2016. And so but but from where I am, I’m a staff person. So I’ve been working against the grain on trying to do internationalization. And, you know, when you’re just trying to do it, you’re trying to see what you can do, I got faculty by hand, but trying to get it to come from the top down. And the bottom up, I mine, I did it as a serious grassroots effort. I did student petitions up Yes, I’m interested in study abroad, and stuff and then caught some faculty that were interested in and we got it off the ground, we use the Gilman Scholarship. So that was great. But it really made me think about and this is where this conversation came when Dr. Bas are talking about the campus culture, what it takes to do this. And to do it from the bottom up is like climbing Mount Fuji. Straight up. It is it is a it is a hard difficult climb. Whereas talking to some of the people that have participated in our study, you know, if you’ve got that institutional culture set in such a way that you have buy in from faculty, staff, students, and the administration, it just changes the conversation so much. And that was kind of where our idea came from talking about the things that I was trying to do. And I just said, Man culture that’s really such a big deal. I mean, but with these kinds of dialogues that we can have as as a faculty student relationship, but also his peers, she she is my mentor, but she is also here, and that we’re collaborative in what we’re doing. And so she spoon fed me through the IRB process that was fun. And yes, and I was terrified that IRB at our institutions. I remember those times.  Well, you know, but it but it was good that I did that because I started getting further into my research technology courses. I actually generated some other ideas off of our work and I’m actually doing a second independent study off of the work that we did it was kind of a branch off I’m looking at Global Studies certificates and how they help with campus and curricular internationalization so that’s another piece but I did my own IRB and but I never would have thought that I could get through that if I hadn’t had someone guide me through the process first. And also writing I mean doing my first publication I was like, You can’t do this I mean, and she was had nothing to do with her but she read it and she said, Okay, here are some areas you can fix. Just having that feedback that you know to get over that imposter feeling that Yeah, no you can . Yeah, yeah, you can. I mean, I’ve actually managed to put out five pieces since then. So it’s like, you know, now that I’ve started like, now that I’ve done two IRBs, and I’ve been doing trying to do my own studies, the dissertation doesn’t seem impossible. So, the whole process I really think that since I established this relationship with her. I have great faculty. But Dr. BAS is one of the few that truly understands my perfect professional perspective as an international educator, because the emphasis in my degree program is not that it’s Metropolitan diversity and diverse populations, but international education is its own thing. But she has that both that perspective and the community college perspective. So I was a huge blessing to get her on my faculty. 


Dr.Bas  10:29

SoI love the work that that came out of our collaboration because we really wanted to see what that internationalization of the community college campus looked like and how to create that culture on the campus. And so Stacye did an amazing job of working through a listserv with NAFSA, for the region she’s in and she sent out some some emails and communications and was able to get some interviews for us. And we ended up doing a phenomenological study, looking at individuals like Stacye, on in the field, what was their experience? Were they creating internationalization? Was administration creating internationalization? How was it being developed? And then most importantly, you know, we sat down and we said, Why is it matter? What does it matter at the community college level? Because we’re often thinking about internationalizing, you know, the university campus and doing that, but why does it matter at the community college level, and our research led us to look at, you know, just the diversity of our community colleges, you know, most community college students live within an eight mile radius of the Community College. But those populations are quite diverse. And we have immigrant populations that are coming in, we have international students who sometimes start at the community college, there’s cost savings, they’re starting at the community college first. A lot of a lot of students who will come in to do ESL through the community college. And so the population and the culture, the International culture, exudes at the community college just as much as it does in a four year institution. And so we have to build that internationalization at the community college as well, but maybe in a little bit different ways. But it really has to be embedded, we think of the mission and the role of the community college is to serve its local community, right to replenish the workforce. But the local community, and the workforce is quite global, I think, if anything, COVID has shown us that we can work from home and be anywhere, right. And so but but our workforce is also quite global, and our competition to get into the workforce is quite global. So it’s so important that this happens at the community college level that we have that exposure to cultures and ideologies that are different than our own, not better, not worse, but different so that we can have relationships and learn to do that. So the great thing about this this study is that we gained a lot of knowledge about what’s going on at the community college and where it’s where it’s working, and where we need to improve it. I’m going to let Stacye talk a little bit about that.


Stacye Thompson  13:08

Well, yeah, and I think that’s the thing that was really interesting to me, because it made me look at my own process of how I’ve been doing. And I’ve really realized that I’ve been doing it from the bottom up and lift, lift a load that, that it shouldn’t be this hard. And, but but trying to get that upper administrative buy-in and when budgets are limited, and you know, it’s like, why is this important? Do this, really want this? Um, you know, so I talked to some of our participants, Paul Simon, Community College winners, Paul Simon award, so, I mean, so they had very robust programs. And a couple of schools that we talked to are little rural colleges that had a couple of international students and they’re like, well, there’s not much internationalization here. You know, I mean, so it’s it was it was just really interesting to hear some of this spectrum. But the things that definitely, were clear is like you already mentioned Dr. Bas the intentionality, you know, how intentional are you about what you’re doing? Or is it a small group of people trying to do it, it has to really be embedded and become integrated into the campus wide life. If it’s not, it’s not going to last because what will happen is a faculty start something like study abroad or something like that, you know, and they retire, it’s gone. You know, if you start an academic program, and those faculty are the only ones that really care about it, and they retire is gone. I mean, so you have to have you have to create life within that internationalization to make it fit the strategic structure of your institution, and, and make it practical for them. It has to be, you’ve got to make it reasonable, practical, affordable, accessible, all of these things to create these spaces. so that they become important and integrated with the other things that faculty, staff and students do, it should become, but it should be expected that it’s there to come so habitual that, you know, it’s like, oh, we have that. And it’s so great that we have that that we should be doing. But we want more of that. I mean, you have to, you have to have a very intentional plan. That was something that was very clear. And the people that work on this all need to be speaking the same language, they all need to have the same plan, have structure have, as one of them put it in this is probably my favorite quote from anybody who was like you all have to be seeing the same song. And whether they’re faculty, whether their staff, whether your student promoters for these things. If you’re all speaking the same language, top to bottom, then it just comes in brain, it becomes a part of an institution. One of one of the interesting conversations I had was a school that had really done a lot of campus internationalization. Like I said, some of them were Paul Simon, that actually put it, I love it that some of the schools that have been successful, truly participated. But one of the things that they talk about is, yeah, we’ve had the success. Now we’re on a decline. And they’re moving on to other priorities, because it’s like we checked the box, because we did that. How do you keep it to be a priority? Maybe it’s no longer the number one priority, but you got to keep it in the top five, to sustain it. And so how do you do that? And so that’s, that’s where you’ve got to keep it where it’s current, where you’re constantly in analyzing, assessing what you’re doing, you know, to show the success and to keep it and another thing that came up and all of you probably know this marketing, marketing marketing, will have to know about it, you have to do you have to toot your horn, you have to show what successful for what you’re doing, if you don’t, if you won’t last. And then that’s crazy, because some of the programs I’ve talked to, I’ve been successful for a long time, and they were dying, that their their initiative that had been successful for 20 years was dying, because the people that did it, were gone. And so so those are the big things that really came out of this study, we’re not complete yet. We haven’t hit saturation. And there’s little pieces that keep coming out every time to talk to you. But But yeah, but that’s we’ve gotten so far with what we have.


Dr.Bas  17:27

 I think one of the things that that we learned as far as next steps for community colleges is that they have to create internationalization as a part of their strategic plan. So it has to be written and and really to review their mission statements and to make sure that they’re including it in their mission statement and their vision and their goals. It has to be something that’s going to continuously pop up. And that intentionality that Stacey was talking about is so true. It has to be intentional if we’re going to internationalize and also develop an understanding of what internationalization is. I think that was key. As we ask each and every one of these participants, you know, how do you define internationalization? And what does that look like for you. And while while they were all similar, in some ways, they were all also different. And so we had to kind of pull some pieces together and say, okay, maybe step one for the community college is defining internationalization for your institution. And then making that something that you continuously refer back to this is how we’re defining it. That’s how the research defines it. And this is how we’re defining it. And then we’re going to embed that into everything. So it really, really understanding what it is. And you know, that’s a challenge for more rural community colleges that may not have the larger population. But I think it is just as important for them as it is for our metropolitan area. community colleges as well. So


Lixing Li  18:57

that’s great. Well, awesome. Yeah, that was actually one of the questions. I would like to follow up. Since you mentioned, the mission of the community college education is serving the local community, and you do mention and observe that the campus internet internationalization could be so the how to fit into their mission statement, and this fascinated to see that you guys brought up. First of all, we need to define what internationalization mean. And you also mentioned a little bit of the challenges you’re facing right now. So do you see any possible like plans that we can just take the action immediately and, and persuade the high level administrators to take actions?


Stacye Thompson  19:41

Okay, so the biggest thing is, to me, I think the biggest continuing challenge is, you know, part of it is accreditation, okay? If your accrediting bodies could be more deliberate about this particular competency being something that should be built into student learning outcomes, I think that would go a long way in buying, especially when you’re dealing with schools that are not traditionally going to be open to internationalization, but, um, you know, but it’s got to be, but but we also have to try to advocate and educate. So one of the things that I’m doing is I’m part of a community college system. And we have created a group within that community college system that’s interested in global engagement. And so doing that has changed the game completely, because instead of just trying to do it for just my community college, we’re looking at the system as a whole about ways that we can help even rural community college. So I’m going to, I’m going to say the whole population, only 5 million, you know, so, I mean, you know, our city, I’m in the big city at 1.1 million, but I mean, there’s, there’s campuses that have, you know, 800 students, but one of my campuses is like that is rural and bringing a Fulbright Scholar out to that campus to engage the faculty, the students. And so trying to figure out what those elements are, that will engage these different communities, and how we can share them is really critical. And I think if you had accreditations that was that wanted that as pieces of it. And now with zoom, and webinars and things like that, everything is so accessible, I think people are just starting to realize that. So I think virtual exchange virtual engagement is can, it can be a huge game changer for community colleges, if we can increase our students accessibility to technology, I think that could be an enormous game changer for internationalization. I really didn’t. Because I’ve used it, I created a Global Studies Institute this summer with a virtual exchange program and did a global workforce series as part of it, dissipate 25 we’re not even from Alabama, that we’re from California. And some of them were like, this was the best thing ever, I know what I’m gonna do with my future. Now, I really want to go abroad, I really want to do this bet and, you know, but that’s, that’s the thing, you got to put it accessible, easy, affordable, and do that. And if they see the value in it, then you know, if it becomes part of the curriculum, if it becomes part of the integration, I think that makes it sustainable.


Dr.Bas  22:30

I’m gonna add to that, I think another important first step, and I say first step, because I think we all have a starting point, right? Because I think that administrators have to recognize that they need to assess their institution, they need to assess their faculty, their staff, and their students to see where they are on their knowledge of internationalization of the global world that they live in, and how they are using it. Because you may have faculty that you’re not aware of who are quite globally engaged, who can help be models and spokespersons on campus to help with training and other things that need to be done to help get everyone on the same page. You may also find that you’re you know, there are a lot of times president will say yes, we’re we’re we’re very much in support of international students. But the reality is that services are not being provided that are needed to international services, students do their services offices. And so by assessing at the different levels, finding out how your your staff and student affairs and Enrollment Management defined internationalization, how your faculty are defining internationalization how you as an administrator are defining it, assessing that, and then assessing what processes each has in place. Because they may know what it is they may know how to define it, but they may not know how to do it. And so doing that initial assessment to see where you are in the starting point, because there may be some training that needs to be put into place, maybe you need to have someone come in for faculty development and talk to you about how to integrate global and international aspects into the curriculum, how to be more inclusive of the voices that you have on your own campus, that are from international backgrounds. So I think that assessment piece is so key, before you can really do anything else. First of all, you have to know where your baseline is where you’re starting at. So


Stacye Thompson  24:28

And just to kind of follow up on that that came out of the study to is having a comprehensive committee representative of your campus to create your plan, but it shouldn’t be a static committee and maybe a two year committee and then it rotates, you know, but you keep somebody around that has the history, you know, but but it’s got to grow. It’s got to evolve, it can’t be static, or it won’t, it won’t make it forever. You know, you want something that will become long term and become a p a part a permanent part of institution?


Dr.Bas  25:01

Absolutely, I think what she said was so key is that it the committee can’t be the same committee all the time. You have to have rotating positions on that committee. That way, there’s always somebody new coming in. And always somebody leaving who’s advocating, right. And so if you keep that committee going and rotating, it’s


Stacye Thompson  25:20

sometimes it’s very important to to keep because sometimes faculty want to go on the study abroad trips every year, and then you get a glut. And so it’s always the same people. So you need to be able to make room for new people who want to do stuff. And it can’t always be the same people. That’s not fair either. So yeah, that’s another path piece of that. 


Xiao Yun Sim  25:40

Yeah, I really like what both of you have shared and from the conversations that we had so far, I keep hearing of creating the live creating the campus culture surrounding internationalization, globalization and space, I remember you mentioning about sustainability. And I think that what both of you just shared is really important, because we want to be really intentional, getting the read of the room of where is our staff at where’s our students at and based on what we have right now to pull in other resources or make modifications to serve the ever evolving higher education system that we have. I am personally interested to learn from both of you, did you make any observations about how the student population going into Community College has shifted in the past 20 years?


Stacye Thompson  26:26

I could speak to that from 2014. When I’ve gotten here, I, at least in our region, we’ve had a great growth of immigration of immigrants into this region, Birmingham, Alabama, that was the center of the civil rights movement, it’s always a long time and thought of as a Black White City. We are not a black, white, say we have a large Hispanic population. But we also have, you know, Middle Eastern students, we have Latin Americans that are not Mexicans, we have Russians, we have Ukrainians, we you know, we have a really robust growing immigrant community. I think, you know, if any of you’ve worked in international global migration in any way, you know, that populations and I see it in my day to day advising, because I do all the admission and all the immigration advisor if anybody’s got a visa, something, I see them. So you know, and but but in general there, but there’s also more us students, in general that have had some sort of globalized experience they come in, they may have been a missionary kid, they may have gone on a study abroad, when they were in high school, they’ve, you know, or they fell in love with anime. I mean, it could be, you know, the world is just impacting these kids on a such a different level. And I see that in my student group, I have about 70 students that are part of my multicultural Students Association, they’re not all international students, I’ve international students, first generation students, you know, traditional, you know, it’s just, it’s a, it’s a polyglot, but the thing that they have in common is that they’re interested in things that are different. And, and so that’s what I’m seeing with them. But you’re also seeing the opposite ends of the spectrum, you’re also seeing students, staff and faculty that are resistant to, to the influence of internationalization think that we need to be more at home. But at the same time, you know, being able to explain to them that you know, that cup of coffee that you bought, where did all the parts come from, you know, you made the cup, you got the coffee, but where were they made, I mean, were they made here, or where the problem materials come from. And they’re, you know, most people, when you try to clean it out and put it on more localized terms, they understand how integrated Our world is. And I think as you said, COVID-19 is definitely taking the blinders off the eyes that we all are impacted by the decisions that we make as individuals in a global context. So I think that I think the students or my students anyway, have shown an interest and they want to know more, they want to know what they don’t, they want to be exposed to different things. So that’s, that’s what I’m seeing on the ground.


Dr.Bas  29:04

I think when we talk about international students or international student populations, of course, the last few years have been really rough for international students, based on you know, just different immigration legislation, laws, things that have been passed and policies that have been put into place and then taken out and put back and so our international student populations have shifted for sure some, some aren’t here as much as they were before, right, we’ve lost some populations, but then we’ve we’ve gained others. But at the community college level, you know, the Community College is a great place for international students to fall back to in those situations, it’s a place to go. When we have financial issues globally, because of the pandemic, the Community College is a place to be but it’s cost efficient compared to the cost of the four year institution. And so it is a place for them to go but I think an important piece to remember too is our demographics are changing. As a country, and so I, when I think of internationalization, I can’t I, of course, my focus is on international students, but I can’t think of international students alone, because we do have such a diverse population and that that shift is happening. And it’s happening quicker than I think it was, it was expected to happen. And so that means that we do have a much more diverse population, especially at the community college, because we find that many of our minorities and marginalized populations, start with the community college 50%, almost have students in the United States start at the community college and move on. And I think that’s an important percentage to hold on to. So we have these diverse populations coming up through the community college who have diverse needs. And so when we think of internationalization, I don’t want to take away from our international population. But I also want to recognize that we are quite internationalized as a country. And as those populations continue to shift, the even more important that we embrace internationalization that we learn to become respecters and to embrace cultural differences and new ideology, and look at all the innovation that can come out of that, within this process.


Stacye Thompson  31:21

Another piece of that, though, is that you have faculty that don’t have help, and the community college because resources are so limited. We know you have students who come through K through 12, who have, English language learner support in K through 12. And then they enter university or community college, universities have more extensive support services, we don’t, we don’t have anything focused on the ESL, that’s not true of every community college, but a lot of them have that support that they’re seeing it in the classroom. And so the faculty who don’t have any cross cultural training, usually, they’re, you know, they’re teachers, but they were never taught that context, especially if they’ve taught for 20 years, they’ve taught they know their subject matter, but they don’t know that piece. So we need to give them some help. So I think that’s another piece that administrators really need to start thinking about the future because I think the population trends that we’re seeing in community college are going to just increase, not decrease. I mean, I’ve, since I’ve been doing this last eight years in the community colleges, definitely. So I, you know, I mean, that’s not anecdotal, of course, but I mean, I see it every day. So and the faculty are, are begging for help a lot of times, like I want to help them, and they don’t know who to go to ask for help, either. institutionally, if we don’t have it, you don’t have it. So So we’ve tried to create community partnerships that address some of these concerns. But there’s but they’ve got it, I think that’s got to be part of strategic planning to have the internationalization is supporting the multicultural as well as the International. So I think one partner helps the other in that respect. That’s one of those crossovers ever see, that could greatly enhance the learning of our students if we do it, and invest in it.


Lixing Li  33:15

That’s great. Thank you both for sharing this from your research. Yeah, I think there’s so many great points in your research. And since our time is almost up, and I have one final questions for our audience, most of them are undergraduate students and young professionals in this field. So can you share advice for folks who are interested in working in community college serve international population? We’re not just international populations, but the diverse population in community college.


Dr.Bas  33:46

I’m just gonna say go do it. I you know, I think that when we think of higher ed, many times, our head goes to the four year institution, but there are so many great opportunities at the community college. And I think it is, we just don’t talk about it enough. But I would say definitely go do it. And, you know, if, if the problem is getting your foot in the door, I can work in an advising office that is not internationally related. It’s not an international office, and I can still work with international students. And so I think that’s the great thing about the community college is when you work in enrollment management or student affairs in the community college, you wear many hats. Resources are slim, so you have a lot of cross training, I used to say and my four year my four year people will will give me a look, I’m sure but I used to say I wish everyone who worked in enrollment management or student affairs started at the community college, because then they would recognize the the multiplicity of things that they’re that, that they’re doing at the community college that we’re not doing, that we’re not doing a lot of that cross training at the four year institution in the same way, but those who are thinking In any college, really, you’re going to wear many hats, you’re going to have many opportunities. And I think it just makes you a well rounded professional in the field.


Stacye Thompson  35:10

Yeah, I can definitely say that I did it backwards. I did the university to the community college, and but I’ll tell you what it did. I, I was, I mean, I’ve done it, I did immigration for F and J-1 students for 17 years. And I said, Okay, I need something different. So I said, Okay, I’ll go be an international advisor for 18 students over just because that’s how many I started, I left 1000 and came to 18, that was a little bit of a shock. And I started doing international admissions, which I had never done before I started doing community and campus programming, which I had always done, but I brought it here. Um, you know, the thing is, is that they’re like, I’m a one person office, which is, which is not uncommon at a community college. So you do wear many hats. But the there’s chances, creativity, there’s chances, my experiences here, I never would have started a Ph. D. program if I hadn’t gone to community college, because I just I’m seeing more of the reality of the community that I live in. And I’ve made relationships with that community to help my students because I don’t have everything in front of me, like my institution and everything. For the international students, we had great resources here. I was like, Oh, this is terrifying. I don’t even have a counseling center, you know, so I had to find resources for my students make sure that they’re taken care of and COVID it’s been really interesting with all this. But to start at a community college, I think that’s a sector boss, that’s the door, you know, um, you know, there’s part time jobs that are offered while you’re still student go, like we have a Jeff coach program, that’s a part time program for students that already have a bachelor’s program. And they can work with students that are doing developmental education, to encourage them and help them it’s you know, as a part time job, or a part time job for somebody trying to break into Student Affairs, it gives you some experience. So those opportunities, look, you know, never hurts to ask, or put yourself in an internship opportunity. I do internships with students for international education. So it helps me because one person office, but it also helps them because they get exposure to admissions international and study abroad. Now, if we can ever get it back alive again, but it’s a you know, so it’s, it does have a lot of opportunities. If, if you if you especially if you’d like to think outside the box, it is a place that you can grow into and grow out of, I mean, meaning you can grow up, if within an institution, I would say that most community colleges are smaller, as far as the staff and the faculty. There, it’s a little more insular in that it’s more connected, I find, because universities are so big, sometimes you don’t get that feeling. But at the community college, you’ve run it, you have to help each other because you’re right there, it’s just you. And so there’s a little more intimacy, I guess I could say,


Dr.Bas  38:02

There’s great opportunities to build strong networks and Community College different. It’s not that you don’t have an opportunity to for your institution, but it’s different at the community college because you are smaller, you are more connected. faculty and staff, I think mingle more at the community college level than they do at the university level. So there’s more opportunities to have those connections to get to know who’s doing what, in what office and where to refer students. So there’s just a lot of opportunity.


Xiao Yun Sim  38:29

I want to thank you both for joining us here today. And I think this is a really, really good conversation that we need to keep pushing ourselves to talk about it. Because I think that for us to start those conversations, you need to be the bravery person to come out and just start talking about it. And yeah, you might find a lot of pushback sometimes. But how can you find your allies to advocate together and I think that the interconnected piece in community colleges definitely is a plus what I hear from my former institution where I went to school, it’s like, I could have like, affairs is one thing. Student Affairs is one thing, even though they kind of interconnect with serving the same student population that you’re working with, but there are two different entities, but how can we make sure that both of them are sharing the same message, it’s really hard so with community colleges, I hear that you are able to do that because one person is playing multiple hats like Stacye, you’re working in enrollment management you’re working with like international students with the visa related questions you’re working with study abroad as well, like just so many different pieces that lines up together. And definitely I do want to thank you both of your time here today for joining us and looking forward for the papers or the research all to come out shared our way we’re interested to see what was the fruitful results that comes out from the conversation that you have. So once again, I want to thank you again. Thank you.