Description: In this episode, we are featuring a commission endorsed program for the ACPA22 Annual Conference in St.Louis, MO back in March. In this presentation, Katie Koo, Kyoungah Lee and Hanna Lee shared their experience as Korean international staff working in the United States. All of them are Student Affair professionals coming from South Korea. Katie is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Counseling and Human Development Services at the University of Georgia. Kyoungah is the Assistant Director of International Programs and Student Affairs at the University of Pittsburgh. Hanna is the SEVIS and International Student Services Coordinator at SUNY Oswego.
International students, students, struggles, Korean, international, student, experiences, people, pandemic, colleagues, student affairs, seek, support, institution, supervisor, share, staff, Korea, office, stressor
Katie Koo, Kyoungah Lee, Hanna Lee
Katie Koo 00:00
I’m Katie. I use she/her as my pronouns, and I am a faculty member at the University of Georgia. So here’s today’s agenda. So I’m going to briefly share why we are here and then what we are going to talk about tonight. And then each of presenters will talk about the stories and the behind-the-scenes. And then we’re going to engage with the discussions and takeaways from our session. Briefly, let me share why we are doing this and how and when and where we started. So around this time of the last year and virtual ACPA 2021, one of the meetings for commission for Global Dimensions of Student Development of ACPA. I saw two Korean names: Kyoungah and Hanna. So here these two ladies. As me myself as a Korean international faculty member in the field of student affairs and also as a formal Korean international student in the field of Student Affairs, who have been an active member of ACPA since 2015, I never met any Korean staff in ACPA for the past six years. Then as I saw these two Korean names last year, I contacted them immediately, and then our conversations and connections began from there. So yes, it is very rare to have Korean international staff on campus in student affairs divisions. And while there are a good number of Chinese or Indian international staff on campus, this means that Korean staffs are lonely and we need the community and lead support group. So then these three Korean international women who are in the field of student affairs decided to share our stories and lessons that we learn with the audience of the ACPA for tonight. By doing this, we wanted to discuss important but missing perspectives and narratives from Korean International Student Affairs professionals, as we share our journey to becoming student affairs professionals as non US citizens.
Katie Koo 01:59
Let me begin by sharing my story. So now I am a faculty member in student affairs. But I also have pretty diverse experiences of working in different student affairs divisions across different institutions. So if you look at the picture, I worked at the residence life at Michigan State University as a community counselor providing counseling services and community programs for graduate students and international students. So let’s start with to flagged photo here at the bottom. And that’s where I lived and worked as a Residence Life staff. And that’s the first institution that I started as International Center. And I worked at the international office for New York University, providing advising and new orientation to international graduate students at NYU. And I still remember that it was the best position I ever had, I truly enjoyed working with new international students, and then help them to settle down in the in the US and New York City. Then I worked at Pratt Institute, which is the center and a down picture. So I worked at Pratt Institute in New York City as a mental health counselor. So I have a counseling background, and I used to be a licensed counselor when I worked there providing counseling services. I also worked at the University of Maryland Counseling Center as an academic counselor. So these are the spaces where I worked as a Korean international staff. And like I said, I never had any Korean international staff in my institution, so I was only always the only one person. So as the title of our presentation is thriving or surviving, I’m going to share about my surviving mode.
Katie Koo 03:47
So let me share about my struggles as a student and as a staff member. So as I worked on those different positions, I struggled with multiple issues, such as acculturation, loneliness, isolation, language barriers, academic stressors and consequences about the future. As an international student affairs practitioner, I encountered multiple occasions of making mistakes due to the cultural differences, different social norms, and interpreting others’ intentions, incorrect ways. Maybe some of you might relate to it, maybe not. But because all my supervisors and mentors were Americans, I could not 100% shared what happened to me, and why those happened to me. So I never just shared what happened to me and why those happened to me. And I couldn’t really seek help from those people because I thought that they would never understand me. So again, I was always the only one. Those moments lead me to feel lonely and isolated. I have been always the only one international staff. I was only international and Korean staff and other colleagues that would not never understand me or they don’t see my struggle because they don’t experience those type of difficulties. So they don’t have the same struggles that I had. So that’s my assumption. And I guess that being the only person has been my thing. And since I’m still the only international faculty in my department, we have over 30 faculty member in my department, but I’m still the only international faculty. And I’m the only Asian faculty.
Katie Koo 05:24
Another struggle. So English proficiency was another top stressor that I had as international staff. So I was able to speak some English at the time. But my limited English proficiency made me look less professional, look less competent, look less confident, and less knowledgeable and less attractive. I definitely remember those moments, I saw that students or other colleagues, they tended to run to native speaking American staff member when they had some issues, not to me. And then I knew that they didn’t really think me as a professional person. Another issue: anxiety and constant concern about the future was another stressor. As you many of you might really relate, because this is not my home here is not my home, I’m here, as a foreigner, I had, I had to figure out my own way to support me to legally stay here in the US. And then there is no guaranteed future for anyone. So the uncertain future as a staff member, and as an international student, was really another burden and stressor for me. And that’s when I really tried too hard and hard to get there.
Katie Koo 06:38
So those were my struggles. And sometimes, I feel that this is really the dark side of my surviving mode as a Korean staff, so I still call them struggling and surviving mode. And then next slide. So however, the story didn’t end there. So So story didn’t end at the negative side. So this is not the end of the story. So again, so because I went through those difficult times. And those struggles, I became to envision my research project, and I was able to create a main research line on international students. So although it was really the surviving mode, and it was really struggling mode, I was able to transfer those struggles and sadness to my thriving mode, because I was able to create my research agenda based on my struggles. So I’m actively conducting several research projects on international students, because of my previous experiences. Without those difficult times, as a Korean staff, as a Korean international student, I will never see the need for the international students. So now, I’m very thankful for those experiences. And I’m and those struggles, I’m really thankful. And also, I’m really thankful about the dark side of me. And the fact that the story didn’t end there.
Katie Koo 08:07
I like to wrap up my story by sharing some, some two cents from my experiences. So if you are international staff or international students, here are some items that I want you to remember. So, please get support from your advisor, your mentor and your supervisor, your supervisor is a person that you can turn to that you can run to when you have some problems because your supervisor is a person who evaluates and who review your performance. Seek help from other staff or faculty in other institutions as well. So, your mentor, your supervisor cannot be just confined in your institution, but use a different method of connecting to other people in other institutions. Institutions have different cultures. So if you connect with other institution, you are exposed to the different cultures, different people, and different resources that you ever you never really experienced. So use ACPA news, NASPA or use NAFSA to connect with other supervisors and other mentors. So like the way that I met Kyoungah or Hanna through ACPA and Global Commission, start actively seek for your people across the different institutions across different professional organizations.
Katie Koo 09:25
Another two cents that I wanted to highlight please know your strength, your strong points and try to maximize your strong point and strength. So everybody has a talent try to focus on your talent, try not to focus on your weak point but try to seek your strength and then try to maximize what it is. I really want well, international student and international staff, we tend to self criticize self destruct because we have certain expectation level. But let’s try to focus on the strength and the strong points that we have. And let’s try to maximize what we have, and have a good support group. So for me, I found a wonderful support group here at ACPA. The Commission for global Dimension of Student Development is a group that I was able to find as my community. And then I was able to build my professional identity through the commission because I felt that my research and my practices were respected and appreciated. So try to find your home away from home, try to find your own family, as a researcher, as a supporter, and as a friend. So that’s what I really wanted to emphasize. So when you struggle, and when you have some downtime, try to seek help from the community. I still remember that when COVID hit 2020, the Global Commission, we created a support group, and then we met through the Zoom and then we shared our concerns about racism and racist attack. So we were really honestly sharing our painful and conversations and our concern that it was really, really helpful. And then we were able to get connected and then we were connected with the phone texts. So we just constantly check on each other by texting and we were like “hey, did you get your pepper spray?” “When you go to walk outside, just bring your pepper spray” or something like that. So community within the community was really powerful and helpful.
Katie Koo 11:34
Okay, the last thing is turn your sadness or anger into the great opportunity. So again, my struggles, my surviving mode was able to get me to the next level, which is the research on international students. So please do not stop there at the struggling mode, but try to come up to the thriving mode, that if you have anger, if you have sadness, please try to transform those to your motivation to work in motivation to support. Because of my struggles as an international student, I’m motivated to support international students by creating my research. So that’s my story. I will wrap up my story here and now we’ll be back to the discussion later in this session. So I’m going to invite Kyoungah to the podium.
Kyoungah Lee 12:23
Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Kyoungah Lee. I use she and her pronouns. I serve as Assistant Director of International Programs and Student Affairs at the University of Pittsburgh. My name is Kyoungah. I know it’s sometimes hard to pronounce, it’s ki yong kyo. And then it’s like maybe it’s hard to remember to it’s like Kay, maybe I’m from South Korea. Kay, and the young maybe I look younger than my age young keel and ah, kee-young- a lee. You know, I never when I got my name when I was young in Korea, I never thought you know, my name is hard. My name is hard to pronounce. But when I got here, I didn’t know that my name will be barrier for me to get a job for me to connect with people. And it’s sometimes you know, still my colleagues don’t really pronounce my name because I understand that maybe they don’t want to pronounce it wrong. It’s hard to pronounce, hard to remember. So it’s sometimes you know, the way how I introduce myself, it takes like 30 seconds, right? So you know, it’s one of the challenges that I face as well.
Kyoungah Lee 13:35
Language and cultural barriers. Um, maybe when I got here like 10 years ago, from Korea. Maybe I found it like this, my Korean pronunciation, my accent, I maybe I sound it like that, you know, broken language. You know, sometimes people don’t really understand me, although I studied hard in Korea to pick up the language. And then I remember when I was, you know, in college, as a student student, as an international student, I really want to get involved, get engaged as a student leader, but I couldn’t find any opportunity. Because the way how I saw that student leader figure was very, you know, well spoken. You have to articulate thoughts and ideas in English very well. You have to be extroverted, you have to be outgoing. Maybe I will, maybe I’ll be able to pretend that way if I speak Korean to be assumed leader, but with my culture barrier and language barrier, I couldn’t do that. Before shortly. I was able to get an opportunity in International Admissions as a student ambassador. And I found my passions helping and supporting students. That’s why I landed this opportunity. Still, you know, I’ve been living in the United States more than 10 years. Sometimes I feel like I feel safer on campus because people know me, oh, “Kyoungah work and provide a support system for international students.” But when I go outside, for example, DMV to renew my driver’s license. Sometimes I feel like I’m treated as a child. Or sometimes, you know, they kind of ignore me to maybe I’m smaller, I still have accents. When I get nervous, I have more Korean accents. Sometimes when I call the customer service when I talk about legal and health insurance stuff, I don’t think it’s about my English, it’s about the culture, my parents don’t really know the system I’m not familiar with. So I want to double-check, triple-check that I make sure that I follow proper protocols. And I do the right thing. So I kind of ask them, you know, twice, and three times just want to make sure, but they maybe feel get annoyed. They hung up on me sometimes. Or sometimes they asked me that as like, “DID YOU UNDERSTAND?” So I was like, you know, still I’ve been living in the United I have, I’m educated, I have skill sets to do my work well, I am competent, but I feel like I’m still… depending on where I am, who I interact with, I still have that feeling. But I think all the disadvantages that I feel like I had as international student, it became my strength. When I took this job being a bilingual have cultural differences. Because of those experiences, all this my identities, I’m able to help international students and international community better. I’m a visa holder as professional, you know, worker in the United States. I’ve been living in the United States more than 10 years, but I’m still struggling whenever I ask about my just so you know, my supervisor, my department are super nice, you know, in terms of helping me supporting me, but still, I feel like I have to approach them or kind of beg them or asking a big favor for to sponsor me, what’s my next step? Because I know it’s a work for them. It costs money. And it’s the I know, everyone is busy. So I don’t want to be burden to them. But it’s that’s something that I have to do. So I’m still struggling. And then you know, the process, you know, it’s so complicated that I still don’t know what’s gonna be next. I’m the person I plan A, B, C, D, but because of my visa status I can’t really plan my future more than two or three years. So that’s also one of the struggles that I expected I have to deal with a stressful things, unexpected things as well.
Kyoungah Lee 17:27
And then also the challenges and difficulties especially that I got during the COVID. You know, everything shut down around March two years ago around this time. All the emotions and challenges that people my colleagues had. I actually experienced that a month or two months before that January, or February because my family’s in South Korea. Everything was locked down. No one knows what Coronavirus was. I felt very, you know, there was nothing that I could do for them. I can’t really go back. I can’t really I couldn’t really do anything. So all the emotions and you know, the struggles that I had in January, February, that my colleagues didn’t understand because normally talked about, you know, Coronavirus. March 2020. Actually, I was better than how my colleagues were doing because I’ve already had indirect experience of hearing about COVID a lot from my family in South Korea. But when there was a lot of you know, Asian hate, you know, people called it China virus, people yelling at, you know, Asian people. Around that time, I was more afraid of people than Coronavirus, because COVID I can protect myself maybe I can’t limit myself meeting people. I can wear my mask, wash my hands. But people, there’s nothing that I could do if someone is yelling at me. If I’m getting attacked on the street, what can I do? There’s nothing that I could do. My mom was calling me for two weeks not to go outside, even don’t walk around the park. I was stuck in my room. Like two weeks straight I was by myself. And the only only time that I went outside was to pick up the groceries downstairs delivered by Instacart.
Kyoungah Lee 19:14
And I also was afraid that time that I had to support my students to who a lot of them are from Asia. And also I have to be well to do so. And I was afraid that xenophobia will last longer than the virus. At that point, I was like really afraid of that. Being an international staff, they’re not many people, especially Korean staff, not many people. So I feel like this is like overlooked population that we don’t get enough support -relevant support system.
Kyoungah Lee 19:46
Being away from home is really hard. My dad got sick all of sudden, two weeks ago. And I knew when my parents are aging at some point maybe they’re going to get weaker and And I was I wasn’t really ready. And it was my first experience that my dad got really, really sick all of a sudden. And then, you know, he was an emergency. So I told Katie and Hanna two weeks ago, “I can’t make it sorry, I have to go to Korea right away.” And since, you know, it’s so hard to go back because all the COVID restriction makes me hard. I have to get tested before I get on the board. There’s a quarantine period. It just made me hard. And the only update my dad’s condition that I can get from was my mom. Well when my mom was taking care of him, she was busy to call me or text me to give me an update. So I was imagining more than like, worse, worse scenario, because I don’t get any updates from my mom. The only thing that I could do was cry by myself. And I’m the first child, so I kind of wanted to be stronger. So you know, I haven’t cried in front of my family, yet, I tried to be stronger, because how hard it is for them to see me cry. So I tried to calm myself in my room, so maybe my tears will dry up. And I won’t cry anymore, something like that. All those things, you know, it made me just hard being away from home. And also one thing that luckily, I’m on a visa, but maybe if I process the permanent residency process, you know, there I think there will be a point where I’ll be encouraged not to travel because it’s in process. “What if my parents get sick next year sometime, and I’m in process then, and I’ll be encouraged not to call go back?”
Kyoungah Lee 21:37
You know, all those like these, like, complicated situation is waiting for me, I’m just scared of but I’m not here, I’m not here just to share what all my struggles are. But somehow I’m thankful that all my journeys and all those experience to have so I’m able to support other people too. One day, you know, maybe a few years ago, I remember, verbs are really powerful. Because sometimes people want is I want to be a teacher, because I like teacher instead of now. I think it’s more powerful that I want to educate, the verb, students to grow well. Instead of saying, I want to be a doctor, instead of saying that I think it’s more powerful, say the verb that I want to heal people who are sick. So I was thinking in my life or at work, what kind of verb the powerful verb do, I want to keep in mind. I chose two verbs; it may be changed but now I chose: embrace, empower. All the direct and indirect experiences that I had all the journeys that I went through. Because of those experiences, I’m able to embrace myself, I’m embracing, I am able to embrace other cultures and other people. But I didn’t want to stop there. Because I want to empower others to do the same thing. I want to be empowered, and empower other people too. So I’m not complaining all the experiences that I had or joined us that I will be going through, but I try to be the reason that I can survive. And also thrive is very thankfully all those experiences and I really hope that all of you in this room remember my story. And the power of kindness is caring, is very impactful because the love and caring that I get from my friends and colleagues are very thankful and that really motivate me to do well and thrive. So hope you remember my stories and bring that back to your home and at your institution and share those kindness. Thank you!
Hanna Lee 23:37
Thank you, Kyoungah and Katie for sharing your stories. I want to give them a big warm hug. Okay. Hi again, everyone. My name is Hanna. I am SEVIS and International Services Coordinator at SUNY Oswego. My experiences are similar to Kyoungah and Katie but slightly different in the way that I came to the US as a non-degree seeking exchange student back in 2014. So I came here as a just you know, enjoy the American higher education system as an exchange student. But the interesting part is after two weeks, I had to fly back to Korea and then had a family visa interview to get a green card. So my visa status changed from F1 student visa holder to green card in two weeks, which seems pretty suspicious to CBP (Customs and Border Protection) immigration officers. So whenever I travel internationally, eight out of 10 times I’ll be placed in secondary inspection.
And now I serve as a DSO. For those who are not familiar with the jargon; I’m the one who issues I- 20 immigration documents to international students. So whenever I go to secondary inspection I have this look in my eyes- “Now I’m a DSO, I’m not suspicious, I’m not a suspicious person.” So that’s what I do. So the first photo that I, I took this first photo, when I just arrived in the US, that was my on-campus residence. And the second photo is the carriers that my family brought into the U.S. So as I go through the process of changing my visa status within the American higher education, that made me want to be someone who advised international students. So that’s why I wanted to be an International Student Advisor. And that made me to kind of form this expectation towards myself. So whenever I have students when I have to go through a similar process, I naturally have this kind of, you know, drive to really help students not just not because I am here to work as an international student advisor because I was there seven years, seven years or eight years ago.
So I will give you an example. I didn’t realize this until my supervisor pointed out, so Okay, so I had this exchange student from France, and this student also had to change their visa status from J-1 exchange students, and somehow their home countries were not cooperating. So this students were in very awkward scenario. So I there was only one condition per immigration regulations, where they had to secure the internship positions in order to stay in the United States. So I pulled all the strings that I have- I called the Career Services, and I reached out to different offices, asking if they have openings for this student. And I finally was able to assist the students to get an internship and stay and study in SUNY Oswego. So my supervisor told me that “Hanna you went the extra mile for the student,” that’s when I realized, ‘Oh, I’ve got an extra mile for the students.’ And when there are students who, you know, there are many kinds of like troublemakers on campus who would not apply for OPT program, which is employment opportunities, or STEM OPT extension on time, or there are students who do not prepare all the required documents or fail to graduate. So those are kind of like red flag scenarios. But for me, that seems like it’s really easy to just, you know, think that will I do my best and it’s just students who did not know, read the instructions or resources. But for me, I kind of think that like, ‘what is the hole here? Like, what is the gap here? Or is there any, you know, like, problems in communication style?’ Or ‘was that information, the way that I delivered information was not enough?’ That question will follow me throughout the day and I try to improve the way that I communicate with students or improve the way that I display the information so that really, my past experience really impacted me in that way.
Hanna Lee 28:21
What is the interesting thing is that I also see that my students, parents, or other offices have some sort of expectations throughout me as well. And I see these kinds of two concepts. One is Savior, and the other one is diplomat /dictionary, and I will explain details. What I mean by Savior, and diplomat / dictionary. My appearance, which is not a traditional American look, or my accent, which is not a native English speaker, kind of comforts international students or parents. Isn’t it great that your appearance can you know, like, make others feel good when they first arrive on campus? So students will come to me or email me saying, “Hanna, I’m so grateful that you are working here”, you know, as a contact person, or as a key contact person in the ISSS Office. And there are parents who come to me and say: “Oh, I’m so relieved that, you know, my kids can go to you and seek assistance.” And there was one time that one parent came to me and said: “Okay, so from today, my children are your children now.” I am not sure about that. But okay, I know where you’re coming from. So those are the things that students and parents think that I’m kind of a Savior for them.
Hanna Lee 29:50
And the second thing is the other thing that I observe often from students and parents is like this. “So what is an apple in Korean, is in English?” So they want to see what is “this” in the American higher education system. But we all know that not every education system is the same. For example, the community college system- We do not have a community college system in Korean higher education. So if someone is asking me, what is the direct translation of the community college system in Korean, my answer will be “Well, just community college? I don’t know.” Right? But international students are kind of asking me: “What is this in the Korean education system is in the American system?” And that observation has been intensified during the pandemic. There was one student who had to submit their vaccination document, and the students will ask me: “so can I submit this document in Korean?” And I said: “Well if as long as it is in English, you can submit the document and health services will tell you if they can accept or not.” But if I wasn’t looking like this, or if I didn’t have that background, that will stop there. And they will submit it I suppose, but they will keep going go and going on. So they will ask: “No, no, no, no, I’m asking about this app is COOV, or POOV in Korea that we are using to enter restaurants and stores.” And then they will explain who history of the application. And again, I told the student: “Well, I don’t know- you have to ask health services.” But they do have this concept because I have an international background, and I’m a contact person in the ISSS Office, they think that I should know everything. And I should say the answer yes or no to students. But most of cases, my areas of expertise, my office’s responsibility are in that I cannot really provide the direct answer to students.
Hanna Lee 31:59
And the other thing that I observed often from any of our international students is, when it comes to immigration regulations, or policies, they should reach out to me, but they tend to turn to their peers, their Korean peers, Chinese peers, or someone who went through the application maybe two years ago. So and that was also something that I found very interesting during the pandemic. So we all know maybe, if you work in international education, that the immigration policies have been changed so many times during the pandemic. One time, there were international students who had to leave the country, if they are not taking in-person classes. And we all know most of the colleges closed the in-person courses because of the virus. But there are some conditions like this, and it could apply differently to different groups of students. But I saw the social media posts or videos, where international students were panicking, that “I have to leave this country”. And those videos and posts work would make other international students panic, as well. So that’s where my frustration was. And that was kind of my mission to kind of deliver, like right information in their languages. So that’s why I started my own website, SEVIS SAVVY, where I deliver immigration regulations in Korean, and Chinese.
Hanna Lee 33:28
And now, before I get into my personal life, there’s one thing that I want to mention, and which is about colleagues from other offices. So other offices are so kind of have this expectation toward the ISSS office and me. And so they would forward, I want to say virtually all, but I will not use a stronger word, I would just say they tend to, they tend to forward emails from students with foreign names. But as I said, I’m a permanent resident here. So I’m not considered an international student. So there were several cases where I received these kinds of emails. And when I looked at the students’ records, there were not international students. And what we’ll see more and more of those cases in the future, so and, and other offices would also want me to be involved, whenever there there are international students, and it is very scary. And I will give you one example. So during the pandemic, there were students who were seeking mental health services. And there’s one student who went to the mental health center. And one day I got a call from the health services work, the employee there, and she wanted to have me to have a quick conversation with the students. And that made me really scared, because I know that students went there to seek some assistance from the professional and I’m not a licensed profession like Katie, so I didn’t want to say anything that would freak the student out. So I was like: “Well, that student went to your center for reasons. And I delivered all the information, let’s say health insurance that students should know. So I would appreciate it if you could assist the student,” but how they took my answer is like, “well, but they just wanted to talk with someone who has a similar background, international background, so I thought it would be great if you could just have a word with a student.” So it’s not that I don’t want to have any word and we have been, you know, exchanging several email communications, and that student also came to my office. So I did the part and the student went to the Center for reason. So those are the things that I observed that my other colleagues are not experiencing in my office, but those are the things that I experienced because I do not look like you know, like my colleagues and I do sound like someone has an international background.
Hanna Lee 36:04
Okay, now I’m, I will switch gears to my personal life. I took the first photo, when I call the police, to report my great neighbor, you know, we all you know, go through that. So I couldn’t, I couldn’t fall asleep because of my neighbor. So I had to move out and move into a new apartment, and it was during the pandemic. So my colleagues, like, every one of them helped me to move in to find a new apartment and give me resources. So I really appreciated the help that my colleagues gave me. So I think it’d be great if the office or department or the institution have some sort of a list of apartments or, you know, like houses where out of towners, or someone who’s who has an international background can refer to when they were looking for housing resources.
Hanna Lee 37:02
And the other thing, as you can see his health care, and I think American health care, it’s a notorious but again, I really agree with what others interpret how American health care. And here’s why I really like I really don’t like this term: family doctor. What kind of doctor is family doctor? So what about me who does not have family in this country, I can not go to see a family doctor, so I need to find my own family slash primary doctor. And I started this position a semester before the pandemic started like the educators say, a semester others say six months before the pandemic started. So anyway, so I really it didn’t really occur to me that the first thing that I had to do is just find a doctor and sign up as a new patient, but I didn’t. And the pandemic started, and I was sick not because of the Coronavirus virus, thank God, but I was sick. But um, I couldn’t go to hospital, I couldn’t see the doctor. And I signed up as a new patient, but there were very few hospitals or health care providers who were accepting new patients. But anyway, I did it. But I still at this point, I don’t have primary doctors. So this is really a problem. So I think it will be an idea for offices, departments or institutions to have this kind of partnership for new employees or out of towners like me and just provide those resources to them. So that they can be maybe like the first thing that they could do is find a doctor and sign up as a new patient so they can seek the healthcare services when they need to. So those were my stories. Thank you for listening and we will open this floor up for this questions.