SPEAKERS
Raymond Sewell, Tadd Kruse, Dr. Charlotte Davidson, Mr. Pura Mgolombane
Tadd Kruse 00:00
Good morning. Good afternoon. And good evening. Thank you for joining us for this edition of The ACP ISIS around the world webinar series, we would like to give general land acknowledgments for the lands that most of us currently occupy. Each of our presenters will speak to this during their introductions. Now, I’d like to thank you for joining us, wherever in the world you may be. Our panelists span multiple countries crossing over six time zones on two continents, and our attendees span over half the globe. My thanks to each of our panelists, and to each of you for joining us. My name is Ted Cruz, and I’ll be moderating our panel session today. I’ve worked for 20 years and higher education spanning three continents, and have been engaged in cultural diversity and International Programs my entire career. I am very pleased to be part of this important session today. Before we introduce our panelists, given the complexity and sensitivity of topics related to identity, privilege, indigenous persons and social groups, we want to offer a reminder and cover some components that will help frame our dialogue. First, we want to make you aware of some aspects of our topic. So we go into this with the right perspective and framework issues of equity and inequity. present on multiple fronts, it’s not uncommon for people to feel uncomfortable. As we explore and discuss these issues. We do know that this is a very limited time, we will not be able to go through every aspect of this but we hope this is an introduction to some important concepts. Along with that we there will not be closure on many of these issues. And each of us will be at a different stage in our own growth in plan. And lastly, it’s important to recognize that intent and impact are two different things. It’s possible for something to be to meanwhile, be it still hurt someone and still have an issue that someone may agree or disagree with. So we respond to what we mean to do and how it does impact the introduction of our lenses. Our panelists are telling their truths, we all are telling our truths. We have a truth to see the world through a different lens and through varying perspectives. And I like this brief little cartoon as it easily explains how we two people can be looking at the same thing but has vastly different points of view. Now to cover some important terms. We won’t focus on each as you can read the words on the screen. But we do want to address some important concepts as we lead into our panel today. Social Responsibility and social justice are important to talk about creating greater equity in our societies, and how people interact with our societies. Identity and social identity speak to the individual’s perspective of how they see themselves and how they relate to a social group, but also to how a person’s knowledge of belonging to a social group, or category influences them. When we talk about larger systems and talk about influence. hegemony is important as it is a systemic process and power dynamic that allows dominant groups to prevail. privilege and positionality also are similar terms in this space of social hierarchy, social structures, and power, and specific to today’s topic, indigenous persons or peoples who have distinct linguistic, cultural, historical, and political ties with lands, skies, waters, and more than human relations, and sex plants, plants, and animals. decolonization is defined as indigenous-centered, decolonization, integrating its own experience of truths, not necessarily a theory, particularly a new way of knowing and being that is so that it looks new. So again, we want to remind you that each person’s context is shaping their own lens. And context presents both terminology, location issues that we’re discussing ways in which people identify an individual experience. With this, I like to introduce our panelists. We have Dr. Charlotte Davidson, Dr. Raymond Sewell, and Mr. Pura Mgolombane. I will now ask each of our panelists to introduce themselves further as they see fit.
Dr. Charlotte Davidson 03:44
Thank you Tadd, I would like to introduce myself first in the Navajo language, [introduction in Navajo language]. My name is Charlotte Davidson. My feet are planted today in a location known as a day job, or four lakes to the Ho-Chunk Nation here in Madison, Wisconsin, the United States with respect to my own kinship relations. I am the granddaughter of Sally and Key. I’m also the granddaughter of Molly and Ernest Wilkinson. I am the daughter of Nora Yahzee in Wilbur de Wilkinson senior. My partner is Ryan Davidson, and I’m the proud mom to both William and Matthew. This slide is really an indicator of how my how I design my thinking and the people who have influenced that. And so what you see before you is a list of student affairs practice commissioners, as well as various education scholars listed on this slide. And, you know, I really have to give them an immense amount of credit, because they really helped me design my thinking in a way that really centers who I am and where I am. Thank you.
Raymond Sewell 05:21
Thank you [introdcution in native language]. My name is Raymond Sewell. And I’m teaching at Saint Mary’s University in Halifax, like I’d like to thank everyone for coming together with the community, community is everything where I’m from, it raised me to be mindful of community identity, community data, and knowledge is knowledge systems methodologies. So for us to come together in the community and speak to issues like decolonization of higher ed, I think, that says a lot. I’d like to acknowledge everyone here at the ancestors also, that got us to this position. I’m very thankful. When we have sessions like this, we often strike a chord. And I feel like afterward you wonder what more we can do. So I encourage everyone to reach out to me in agreement. Let’s view.ca If you want to continue the discussion, multiple building communities, and getting to know people, so thank you. So I’m teaching English, by way of coming from student affairs and services. I was the indigenous advisor, at that institution here Saint Mary’s, for about four years, and then I wanted more on it to be more involved. So I joined the faculty of English, and teach indigenous literature and culture. I’m a poet, songwriter, musician. You know, people from my community do it all with the arts, and that’s reflective of, of the system we’re coming from. We weren’t gainfully employed in a lot of positions. That had a lot of security. But there’s a lot of interest in indigenous art. So everyone items, artists and storytellers It’s a survival story. And I just want to want to acknowledge everyone all the creators in where I’m from. So thank you, and I look forward to this discussion.
Tadd Kruse 07:22
Thank you Raymond. Next, we have Pura.
Mr. Pura Mgolombane 07:25
I am located as a descendant of African continent in the southern part of Africa, I am born from the village in Mthata Eastern Cave. I am neither my race, nor, my genitalia, nor my culture, or how much i and or how long I’ve been to the mountain become a man, [foreign language] the bloods of the coin, that same brands in my vein, my very existence is going to be possible in the absence of these matriarchs [foreign language], which is my grandmother, [foreign language] which is my grandmother from a maternal side, [foreign language] to now it is important at this point note that you know, my first wife Catherine, [foreign language] is the one who made it possible through the accident that happened on our journey from Mthata to join us back on the fourth of June 2002. In were in that moment, and she transcended to the spiritual realm. And that then made it possible for [foreign language], who is now my current wife and partner, [foreign language]
Tadd Kruse 09:08
Thank you, Pura. this point we’re going to go into our questions in the bulk of our time will be spent on with our panelists exploring the topic. At this point. If you do have any questions as we are proceeding, please feel free to put those into the chat. We will compile those for the end of of our session today. So for our first question, we’re going to go to Dr. Raymond first followed by Charlotte’s and Pura and that question is what are the major issues faced in your country or region of the world surrounding decolonization and support for indigenous higher education communities? And feel free to include any terminology that is commonly used, acknowledging that that terminology may differ by each location. Raymond? Sure. Big question that thanks. In my area, we’re currently in Atlantic Canada a lot of my research looks at competing cultural imaginings of the region. It’s an epicenter here or was that a time of contact, a lot of competing imaginations of what the region should be. I’m living in a place of that I come from. I’m very comfortable. This is our homeland place of the. We inherit that name because someone named us, but [native language] means the ones that walk on yours. [Native language] some some people say it means comrade. So when we were met the colonizers [native language] and then we ended up a different story. In my region, it’s been, we’re in occupied lands on Turtle Island. It’s occupied by British, French, different colonizers. And we’re really live living in an area of different different imagines of the region. My imagining from reserve, where I grew up is that [native language] So often, when I go to school in the city, they’d say, Oh, you know, you’re Canadian, or, you know, and say, No, I’m comfortable with that. There’s been a lot of labels put on us. Decolonization work in my my region, I find is systematically stalled, as one would expect, because it’s about negotiating power and resources. I want to emphasize that resource extraction in Canada wasn’t the only thing. There’s also a brain injury in indigenous ideas. We have real sophisticated pedagogies methodologies ways of no gathering evidence that were very important to life on Turtle Island, those were also extracted. So it’s not purely resources, like nickel, for example. There’s policies in government documents here, that, that continue to debase indigenous people in Canada, things like the Indian Act, they displace us from our land, our traditional resources, looking back home, one of the most nicest places in the city, I’m from where we used to occupy quite a lot, a lot of summer months. It’s now a golf course. And we’re put about 10 kilometers inland. So we have evidence that this is where we grew up and spent our time pre contact and then we’ve been taken off water systems taken away from resource rich areas, put on swaths of land, that are have been continually shrinking since colonization, you know, land deals, and that continues shrinking. And a lot of our land is being contested now in nameplates, because the practices of requirements which land there’s a buffer of sorts where I’m from, and that affects the middle class, aspiring to be an ideal of the colonizer, there’s a when someone owns all the goodies, you might want to be like that. That’s my take on it. But they favor the axis of power. I learned all this, these things, of course, robot from different theorists, influenced and other people. And what I see a lot is I tried to identify it as neoliberalism. However, in the market like that, diversity is important. So it affects the bottom line. So I’ve been dealing with this in my research quite a bit. It’s this Neo liberals that are, are steamrolling indigenous people. And they are to an extent, but I think there’s also just stubborn people were like, if you if you look at the ideals of neoliberalism, it’s to continue to make profit. If diversity makes profit, that’s corporately. Anyone who has corporate illiteracy would would not embrace diversity. So and then I was wondering, is it Neo Fascism is the agenda and just general stubbornness of people not knowing the history? There’s perceived power sharing issues that provide quite a bit too. And there’s like, there’s a, an anticipation that indigenous people want to share power, want to get the tables of power take over the place, and you know, but they don’t acknowledge the traditional leadership from our community. Traditional leadership in my community is all about leading through get me dead with respect. So it’s totally a different political thought. So that’s, that’s one thing I like to include there. So there’s a lot of the laying of equity things. There’s a lot of listening, I find that the system the systematic Reserve System, will listen a lot to ideas from the oppressed in my region. They always have a sympathetic ear, but it doesn’t go to realm faction. And it really, that’s really detrimental because you keep telling your story we traumatizing yourself. Your Story, there’s inaction. But I really think based on my research that we’re informing that systematic shift, so it doesn’t hit the iceberg so to speak. So my take on it is that, if they don’t know, we have a power in story if they don’t know the story of oppression or how they feel, they can’t steer clear of issues that could make them all in the air, but it’s a big topic things. Yeah, it is a big topic. And thank you for that. First starting us off and so let’s go to Charlotte next.
Dr. Charlotte Davidson 15:36
A major issue faced in my region of the world is understanding peoples and places as relatives and not resources. Allow me to explain in brief, indigenous college student development begins with a view of a principle that has long supported the growth and social participation of indigenous peoples. And that is power plus place equals personality, personality, or the three P principle. In the book power in place, Indian education in America, co author Vine Deloria Jr, describes power as the living energy that inhabits and or composes the universe, and perhaps better defined as a spiritual power. Place is understood as the relationship of things to each other. Personality is the result of the relationship between power and place. Personality thus, emerges from how we design our thinking about who we are, wherever we are. This requires an active apprehension of how these principles historically, and currently exist within our own lives. And so, to lessen the invisibility, isolation and disconnection Indigenous students experience in post secondary contexts, student affairs professionals at all levels within an institution should seek to align their practice with a three P principle. seeding the three P principle requires forging relationships, and intentional practice that involves personal and communal exchanges. Knowledge or knowing is always personal, and at the most fundamental level, always about relationships. Circling back to the beginning of my response, one way to develop this connection is by accepting, accepting place, and peoples as relatives and not as resources.
Tadd Kruse 17:59
Great, thank you, Charlotte. And I love that three P prints and a lot. That’s great. Thank you for for sharing that. Pura?
Mr. Pura Mgolombane 18:07
Thank you, Tadd, I think in the African continent, the major issue for for us here is this a vision of the very idea of decolonization by minimizing it this, of course, emanates from this view that the colonizers made us a favor by colonizing us. And I think that is the major problem. And and I think in the process, in know, this idea, what it has done over time, it has of course, created an erasure in the denial notice systems. And, and therefore, you find Now currently, you know, in some part of Africa, and of course, especially in South Africa, where, you know, the young children and the youth, and it has found itself, you know, focusing or embodying, you know, you know, colonial ways of living, and, and being, and this, of course, frustrate, you know, this very idea of identity of who you are, because you can even speak your own language. And I think that, for me, is then the major challenge we’re facing here in the in the continent, of course, now in trying then to decolonize, because as you can imagine, colonization needs resources, you know, to be able to ensure that we get to where we should be, and those resources are not available, and which is actually a major issue as well in trying to ensure that we fast track the technical project. So that for me, is the major aspect within the continent. Thank you Tadd.
Tadd Kruse 19:49
Great, thank you. Um, so the next question is, what are some of the barriers you face locally, and on campus and addressing decolonization issues? And we’re going to start this with with Charlotte But I’ve also if you can maybe address the language issue because I think each of us touched on this in some capacity, either in your your introductions or in your answer to the first one, how that may be an influence and these barriers locally and on campus. So, Charlotte
Dr. Charlotte Davidson 20:17
Yes, a major barrier locally and on college campuses, is an ideological one. And that is recognizing indigenous decolonization as a vital part of our holistic development as indigenous peoples. And so I’ll use the dinette creation narrative as a way to frame my response. So for like myself, our creation narratives encompass the beginning of everything, and serve as an oral record of how my ancestors struggle to embody and achieve [native language] those are dinette terms for harmony and kinship. And so my ancestors traveled upward through a series of black, blue and yellow underworld into our current world, known as the fourth world, our glittering world. Throughout this historic migration, my ancestors experienced various forms of adversity, and learned how to navigate and transcend those moments. It is important to mention here that it’s impossible to discuss every event, cultural actor, and material practices that occurred in the dinette creation stories. However, one of the things that can be unequivocally expressed about this period of creation is that confusion, pain, chaos, are inextricably inextricable from our own human development. And these historical conditions of struggle, have since taking on a new character and structural form, following my ancestors emergence into the glittering world, settler colonialism. A fourth world phenomenon seeks to disrupt not only how we remember, but how we document our current story. So Larry Emerson, one of my maternal grandfather’s explains this in the following way. And he has often said, and I quote, colonizers still insist that we are not who we are in a creation sense, and mythologize our history, culture and identities. colonizers insist that we not be actors in our own stories. Instead, they insist that we be actors in their story and quote, and so this is to say that I view my participation in what I know and understand to be the fourth world, particularly within the arena of higher education, as a continuation of dinner creation narratives. This is also to say that, you know, higher education emerged in the fourth world. So therefore, it’s a phenomenon of the fourth world. So often, indigenous knowledge and practices and peoples are often, you know, seen as the other, you know, as an alternative, you know, especially when it comes to indigenous knowledge is often seen as an alternative way of knowing when really those knowledges continue to be foundational to who we are, and where we are of.
Tadd Kruse 24:05
Great, thank you, Charlotte. Pura?
Mr. Pura Mgolombane 24:08
Thank you Tadd. I think locally, the major barrier, is the idea that decolonization is anti Western and anti intellectual. And of course, then that creates a very, very profound problem in terms of how you even engage the project itself. And so for some decolonization, is receiving a condescending, if not an [?] , and of course, these that are actually receiving in this particular way, are the one you’ve got resources with what power and privilege and of course then in the process, as I’ve said earlier on, it creates this idea of salvation. But on campus. The issue there is is this idea that, you know, when you enter campuses, we must leave ourselves at the door if not the gate, and so with the students who are indigenous student because these spaces are not ready for who we are, and in the process, when when we leave ourselves at the door or the gate, we’re leaving our souls there. Right. And I think that is a major aspect. Because then after I mean, what that does, then is that if you suppress your soul for too long, and of course, eventually you’re going to be sick. Right? And I think then that is actually then the issue in terms of the main challenge, of course, data collection is that decolonization threatens the power and privilege, right of the personalities of the dominant group, because must remember that a decolonization itself as a project was not a coincident. Now, if you to colonize, you are taking away that which colonization itself was intentionally pushing forward. So so this is where then the challenge is, in terms of, of how then to decolonize successfully. And of course, as I’ve mentioned, in terms of how the students experiencing it, and of course, some indigenous staff within our spaces. Thank you.
Tadd Kruse 26:04
Thank you Pura, Raymond? Yeah, for us. Everything comes from the language, our worldview [native language], as a storyteller, we learned from storytellers [native language], like wiser elders, any custodians of that community data, that community data, indigenous way of thinking like [native language] is what we call it, we constantly have to protect it from the dominant systems of English, different oppressors. So that we can, we can keep our like, what I’m saying is, every day I wake up, my elders always put on to me make it easier for the next piece of people behind you, in response to the genocide of indigenous people in Canada, we have to have our culture survive and not get rolled up into what they call it people politic or mainstream mainstream ideals. Because when we lose the diversity of our language, we become standardized, and understandable to two or graded. It really takes away a lot of local local vernacular and ideas that we have that once we lose them for good. An example I have this Pacific in my region, in the region, grandfather’s from he came here and he was proselytizing to the people. There was merchants there as well. So it’s [?] interests. And what they did is they established [?] ones were extracted. What they did was they asked us questions to form it. They, from their perspective, so they collected our words in [?] , you’re behind me with the idea of subtraction. So they didn’t get our true story from us, they get a story from us where they wanted to take an exploit from us. A lot of language work right now, which is really important for students to do, and to engage in with network. Storytellers and elders, and different knowledge keepers, is a response to that is so true decolonization, or you’re taking back your story I’ll learn through stories. In my community. I may I mean, we probably had $20 for gas. On the weekend, we go community community to share stories at the kitchen tables. These are our libraries or archives of museums, we come together and share what we call these one stories that have a medicine. So there was a dire need to have that exchange it that, that swapping of stories going community to community because we have been displaced in a scourge of America colonization, one, one author said they tried to push all indigenous people from the Atlantic all the way into the Pacific and just take the area. It’s such a awful story. And one scholar I like Angela Davis, you know, talking about what [?] said about us being invisible. Another another problem for us to address. The issue is Angela Davis says it’s a nightmare. America doesn’t want to wake up and unpack slavery. The genocide of indigenous people sort of stopped there. But being invisible, and the constant attack on our language. They knew the importance of our language, what they want to gather for trade. That’s reflecting what I said about the brain. They’re always extracted from us. Even now you see it with pharmaceuticals, things like [?] they’re taking more than they need. We have this concept medical or it means provisions. And we we are part of the circle we’re not abstract from it. So for for Western thought and I find when you go to higher ed, they want to extract you from from reality. You can look and take what you need, you know, cosmopolitan is one of you. And it really is like Pura said in the process, you you check your identity at the door that has Real effect. Great, thank you. Does anyone else want to add anything to this question before I move on? Okay, great. So our next question, we’re going to begin this one with Pura, is given the current global climate, what actions has your institution and your students done to address indigenous higher education, community issues?
Mr. Pura Mgolombane 30:28
I’ve said the students, I mean, if you look at the Rose must fall, for example, which happened in 2015, at UCT. And, of course, therefore, by the fees must fall, it will students who actually, we have centered the issue of indigenous people, and, of course, the issue of the atrocities that that happened in the space within which you are located. And then they were saying that look, for a very long time, we have been ignored in terms of how we become in the world. And, and I think they’ve done very, very much in that regard to making sure that we shift, even with the curriculum. Now, they not only actually the UCT, and South Africa, but globally, there were conversations around the aspect of roads must fall. And of course, even fees must fall is for which of course, are tied into this commodification of higher education as it were, and so and so, that that is what we have done and the to agitate, because we know that, you know, at a given point in time, the the power structures, they always recoil, and, and student are continuing to do that, but on the university side, a UCT has now have a new vision, a vision 2030. Right, and which vision is is really to unleash a human potential for a fair and just society. And, of course, a what is embedded in there is this idea of making sure that that, you know, the curriculum recognizes, you know, this issue of multilingualism, this issue of interdisciplinarity, this issue of indigenous epistemologies, this idea of multilingualism and so, so, so So But then, of course, it’s still early days in terms of the implementation, because as at this is given, I mean, to as part of the transmission project, to, to faculties to work on this, but of course, it’ll be very interesting. Come 2030 to reflect and see the impact of these interventions, thank you Tadd.
Tadd Kruse 32:32
great, let’s go to Raymond now Yeah. Pura talking up on the indigenous students and their agency, their activism as a mobilizer. I see brilliant students all the time that that classic academia views at a at a loss coming in. But these students are assets and we’re looking at them like they’re not a lot of things that we’re dealing with in Canada. They say, or academic freedom. Academic Freedom requires research. It’s not just your opinion from year. And students are challenging that people are saying, Well, is it going to a customer service now model, I think it’s going to accountability model. People haven’t been accountable for their actions. And I think students are, are looking for that record. They want people that are telling them not just the stories of the colonizer as you put the stories of the world that they live in, to widen that knowledge. So for me, it’s really important, the role of students a lot. A lot of a lot of my class time is spent telling students, you know, think for yourself, look at the sources, where’s it coming from? What does that telegraph, and I want them to be learners I don’t want I want them to transgress like Bell hook model says, I want them to be engaged citizens and to think about what’s being presented to them. A lot of students at my school, they’re international students, or indigenous students from different countries, indigenous students, local, first generation college students, and I don’t, I don’t want them to get less of an education. I see the brilliance in these students, they really do earn bright, new ideas. And I think the institution overall will be better to get more ideas because that’s what we’re all about the technologies and ways of knowing. So it’s really important to me, that the students engaged in their learning community. It’s reflective of where I’m from the storytelling methodology. We have medicine wheel teachings, direction teachings, you know, teacher, our little ones, network, our elders on that circle. We’re all responsible for education. It’s not just one person all the while to get back to that circle model. I learned all the time from youth I learned from my elders, and I just hope we contribute that way because life cycle for me, so [native language] the intersection of those stories where all the learnings happening. So for Indigenous students, I’d say be be be be with other communities, look for that agency and know that they mobilized and can affect change in that’s what we need to keep the system else to get enough.
Dr. Charlotte Davidson 35:25
Charlotte Yeah, you know, students like land, have a person hood.. They like land have voice. They have agency, you know, and given our current reality, one persistent inquiry that has been circulating with some of the education related associations that I’m a part of is, you know, how can a land acknowledgement then cultivate playspace sensibilities within a virtual, multi geographic space, and I understand that, you know, recognitions of place can be problematic for a variety reasons, or they can become mutated into, you know, a more static kind of placemaking practice. But what I witnessed amongst indigenous and non Indigenous higher education relatives is that it does if it’s done right, if it’s done with intention, it is an opportunity or an entryway to hone one’s narrative about themselves regarding who they are, and where their feet are planted. Because seemingly, these virtualized conditions have become a justification for conditioning students, staff faculty away from experiencing and enacting recognitions of place. So put another way, remote learning and development are new excuses for indigenous erasure. And what I mean by that is, regardless of the online spaces we occupy, our feet rests on the back of Mother Earth. This belief is not a static notion, but it’s an active relationship, we have whether one is conscious of this or not. So to claim then, that geographical encounters do not occur within virtual settings, reflects a reluctance to take responsibility for creating a critical and better-informed profession. And so what is more land acknowledgments are a relationally constituted phenomenon. In many well-being colleagues often grapple with formulating personal responses to these inquiries. For example, two questions that are fundamental to constructing a place consciousness I would say is do you know who you are? And do you know who you are in relation to where you are? In my experience, and all too common misstep is to plagiarize land acknowledgment verbiage from online sources, in this is really a less than sophisticated attempt to become a place-conscious student affairs professional. In many instances, land acknowledgments are short-lived moments at the beginning of conferences and meetings, at best, these recognitions of place should act as a vehicle to communally engage in critical reflection, to engage in dialogue, and engage in the production of transformative actions that can eventually lead to creating an empowering university context for Indigenous students.
Tadd Kruse 39:18
Great, thank you, Charlotte. So we will move on to our second or last question. And that is, we’re going to begin with Raymond this time, I believe. So the question is, from your experience, what can be done to support indigenous higher education communities to reduce these issues of inequity? And particularly, what does decolonization have to do with achieving this objective?
Raymond Sewell 39:47
Yeah, for me, decolonization is something you have to do every day you have to do it in your personal life. You have to do it at work. A lot of times people think that it’s a concept that’s way out there, but it’s not it’s a at all these, these communications you have with people removing the grid. When when I was growing up, my dad said there’s no such thing as time. What he meant by that is, is the Western clock that greets the day, you see the streets are greeted in a similar fashion. Houses are rows and things are graded. People are putting into crude binaries. Myself, I’m a Two-Spirit identify a person, we call it [?] from I see my gender is more in flux, I don’t see it as something that can be put in a binary status, non-status, you know, card-carrying status, but what does that do to relations that aren’t you know, so there’s a lot of crude binaries, a lot of labels put on people, decolonization for me, it’s very stressful, I wear that every day, I have to remove all those labels and those power things that are influence in my life in my community. And it’s, it’s that dire, and it’s that process, you have to do it all the time. So it’s not somewhere you’ll arrive. It’s just something you got to fight off on time. For me, I go back to the languages inextricable from our land and our worldview. So I always go to language revitalization. to ground myself. When I feel that things are getting too too while that cloister back to my roots, you know, don’t we just [?] up where I’m from. And I’m always mindful that I’m, I’m working hard to make, make it better for the people that are coming up behind me. That was always number one, and for the culture and stories to survive. So when my father passed in March, he just passed recently, he said [native language] my memories are yours. And Scott mamady talks about this with the transmission of knowledge. It takes a storyteller to know the story they’re telling. And then the second phase is a good listener thinks a good listener. And third, it takes that sharing so that’s how our art storytelling is passed on. It’s not It’s oral in nature. But it’s not like a phone game that we would play with your friends where you go around the circle to tell a story comes back totally different. Ours are really rigorous, really told. And one final example. But given that is I was learning the song, the [native language] to spirit song. I spent about 10 years learning that I never got it right. And then finally, on like, year 11, I got it right. And my father said you did awesome. Do with it what you will. He said creator doesn’t like the perfect. And I say well, when you mean I spent, like all this time of my life learning this correctly. What that was saying to me was you know, you have to learn things right before you get in this realm of new culture creation. And I’ll leave it at that. But just be mindful that it’s community identity, locally, where I’m I’m working with this. And it’s a story of survival in face of genocide. So education is super important. super powerful.
Tadd Kruse 43:11
Thank you. Let’s go to Charlotte next.
Dr. Charlotte Davidson 43:16
Yeah, so, for me what continues to go missing in Student Affairs Administration is a serious acceptance and discussion of how colonization remains a part of the lived experiences of Indigenous students since time immemorial place which I would define as land skies, waters in the beings that inhabit these spaces, has been foundational to indigenous peoples and their histories of survival. So it is worth repeating here, that being of a place and being from a place are two very different experiential links to the geographies of today in a post in locus parenthis or in lieu of the parent profession, this means understanding the education and development experiences of indigenous peoples as being historically rooted to what I would call and in [?] or in lieu of place principle. This is to say that the identities of indigenous peoples are connected with dependent on and determined by their umbilical connections with place. And so higher education institutions need to re-examine how they are either wittingly or unwittingly creating structures and conditions that violently a strange indigenous people from where their umbilical cord is buried.
Tadd Kruse 45:00
Great, thank you, Charlotte. Pura?
Mr. Pura Mgolombane 45:03
Thank you, Tadd, I think I’ll start with the with the last part of the question. The historical genealogy of decolonization is colonization. And so and so and so I think what that means then is that without colonization, decolonization doesn’t exist. And so when I think when we speak about decolonization is really identifying, you know, the crime scene, or the one who have done the crime, in this instance, colonization. Right? So what this means, then is that we need them to be we have courage to be honest about the decolonization I mean, the colonization itself, for us to be able to empathize, right? With a project of decolonization, because we know that I mean, the history itself have been sanitized, so much, so that people are unable to even relate with our choices, it that was it is off colonization itself. So we then maintain that decolonization speaks about the idea of redress. The idea of humanization, the idea of rehabilitating the human souls, you know, of the colonizers and the colonized, by the way, those who are colonized, they are still reeling from the effects of the crimes against indigenous people and their soul. So which, of course, includes this idea of losing the language, of losing the culture, of losing the dignity, of losing the wealth, and losing the ways of being and becoming. And so what that then means is that if we are to address this aspect, so we then need to firstly, take the indigenous people, their ways of being and becoming the world very seriously, as valid, and as making a profound contribution to the Human Development and the planet development. So I think, once we then connect those two, I think, then we are able then to ensure then that we do support because all of that, then we’ll move from the society, and then permeate into higher education, or whichever way but I think once we have that collective understanding the collective empathy, then is going to make the project of decolonization is the one and peace at the moment. Thank you.
Tadd Kruse 47:22
Great, thank you. We have a closing question before we get into some of the questions from our attendees. And this is just one for looking for sort of a 30secone to a minute response. And that is, what do you want people to know about issues of decolonization and supporting indigenous persons within your context, in a context of obviously culture, community, sometimes country, and including what that what gives you hope for the future? And so why don’t we begin with Charlotte?
Dr. Charlotte Davidson 47:52
Yeah, so I’ll offer my response within the context of the United States. So So for me, what I want people to know regarding issues involving indigenous higher education communities, is that supporting indigenous higher education communities requires a view of how our participation in higher education is distinct from other populations. And so there is a text titled, beyond the Asterix understanding native students in higher education. And in this book, myself, Molly Springer, Stephanie Waterman, you know, we discussed this difference in our chapter titled, academic and student affairs, partnerships Native American student affairs units. And in this chapter, we assert, quote, Native American students live on land that was colonized by the very institutions from which they seek in education, treaties and other policy agreements, laws and Native American sovereignty are part of our students experiences. No other population comes to college with these characteristics. And so, you know, my hope is that, as I continue to have a presence in higher education settings, that this type of knowledge is transferred on to not only our indigenous students, but our non Indigenous relatives as well. Because there is a hunger from what I witness and really, you know, understanding our experiences and being good relatives, to indigenous higher education communities. And being a good relative is not often a part of our socialization experiences. When we are in the profession, when we are going through our own doctoral development experiences. Those are very rare moments to experience as part of our own learning and development.
Tadd Kruse 50:06
Great, thank you, Charlotte, why don’t we go to Pura next?
Mr. Pura Mgolombane 50:11
Thank you to our people to know that Africa does not need saving. Nor does it need pity. Africa is enough. And that applies to the indigenous people. And we are enough. All we need is the exploitation to stop and stop immediately. And I would like people to know that indigenous people, you know, they want their souls to be free. They want to be themselves, they want to present themselves to the world as they are as not as the world want them to be. Right. And so, if that message can be taken to heart, then I think we will then be in a position that we are moving forward freely, because you see, the issue here is this idea that, you know, Africa is unable to achieve that which it should be achieving. While it is being stifled, suppressed and oppressed, and it can’t breathe. You know, from from, from the empiricism collecting the neoliberalism is taking place. And so what gives me hope, though, is that indigenous people are taking initiative, to rekindle the dying embers of their souls. So that they can be able to flourish at infinitum, and really, really present themselves in the world as valid. And as matters and contribute to the knowledge production in this space is and of course, the economic development of where we at. Thank you very much Tadd
Tadd Kruse 51:56
Great, thank you. Um, I guess, Raymond, do you have any any closing thoughts on this before we proceed to taking questions from the panel? Oh, yes, of course. My My response is directly to people in higher ed communities, whether it’s Student Services, faculty, different things, realize that administrators realize that a digital indigenous intellectualism is its own thing, and it’s very brilliant. It’s not pseudo intellectualism. Also, when you’re doing policy writing, realize that’s the house for Colonial violence. I’ve done policy work and seen so much impediments placed at that level. So many, so many things. It becomes a blame, blame target. So people say, you know, don’t hate me hate the policy. But look at the committee’s that, that did that writing that, that that made those policies. So those are houses, you know, if your date, if you want to look for systematic racism, when you’re engaging in practices that exclude at that level, you’re part of the problem. One final thought I’d like to say is, one thing I hear all the time is indigenous persons. Well, it wasn’t my fault that these were the sins of my father’s. But they’re still enjoying the spoils of their perceived war on us. And resource extraction, brain drain and all that from indigenous people, like purists and has to stop. And it’s just my final thought, just look good. Look at where the coil balances house. Great. Thank you. We do have a few questions that have come in from our attendees. I think a few more coming in. So at this house, ask one or two of you to maybe respond to a quote to the question. He said about five or 10 minutes before we end our time. So the first question that I want to throw out to the panel of one of our attendees is what is decolonization for indigenous people? And any of you that want to address any of the questions, please feel free to unmute and good. Raymond one wants you starting to go to Peru. Yeah, decolonization is an act that I have have to do myself, I’m not impervious to it. Because I’m indigenous, I was raised on the same culture as my peers in Canada. So that stuff takes a lot of unlearning my indigenous learning in non Indigenous school, I’ll just give a quick example, taught us that we were responsible for the annihilation of another indigenous group nearby. Well, I wore that guilt for a long time till I found out that story wasn’t true, it’s fabricated, as a as a sort of idea of what happened when it wasn’t true. When we found the evidence that we weren’t part of the destruction of them people. It starts to make you wonder, because you’re being trained, coded through through what you’re consuming. So just be mindful that as an indigenous person, growing up with different intersections of culture, for me, MTV, right, I have to unpeel all that. brainwashing. So just be mindful of the way that that plays out.
Mr. Pura Mgolombane 55:00
Thank you, Tadd, I think, you know, we need to understand that to mean, colonization itself created the West and the rest, right? And making the West as a standard, right? So, for an indigenous person, I want to be in the space and be enough. Right? And not be measured against what is western and what is the other I should be in the space and be able to in as much as now I’m speaking English. Right? I should be in a position to speak closer, [foreign language], and then the people who have colonized me, and themselves would have been able to hear what I’m saying. Because that is that is this issue that the speaks about double consciousness, right? Because now we really trying, you know, to be in the world, as indigenous people, and as a world wants us to be, you know, so for us need to be in this space and be enough without being seen as less than be sufficient.
Dr. Charlotte Davidson 56:09
Tad, may I add to that? Sure. Okay. So, for me, I’ve had the opportunity, and really the privilege and honor of experiencing [?] decolonization as part of my own doctoral development experience at the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign. And the reason why I mentioned that institution is because I’ve often thought, while I was a graduate student there, of all freakin places, like this is where, you know, I’m becoming less estranged and more connected to understanding myself in an umbilical sense, you know, who I am as, as a human being. And the reason why I was able to have that experience is because unlike a lot of my own colleagues and peers, my grandfather, who has training as a counselor, a medicine person, has a doctorate in education, was invited by the American Indian Studies Program, and the Native American house at the University of Illinois, to create a decolonizing methodology and indigenous knowledge course. And I think one of the most powerful experiences for me in understanding decolonization, as he explained it is, you know, if you can think of like a T chart, you know, on one side, there’s the indigenous side, on one side, there’s the western side, I think prior to entering into that classroom space, I was really functioning from this Western way of seeing the world. And, you know, we’re trained, to situate ourselves on the western side and interrogate the indigenous. And what decolonization, as my grandfather taught is that he wanted us, myself and other native and non-native students in the class, to situate ourselves on the indigenous side, to interrogate the Western, to privilege our worldview to center ourselves. And that is not an easy thing to do. It’s a very painful process, you mourn a lot of the things that this western side has robbed you of, but at the same time, it’s a beautiful process of becoming because, you know, it, it gives you a space to, to name, you know, these oppressions, these processes, in our own language. You know, it gives us a space to decolonize ourselves and kind of slough off, you know, this training of it. And I think for me, personally, what I’ve learned is that you know, oftentimes institutions of higher education and our own indigenous worldviews, practices, peoples, and knowledge, you know, each space has its own cultural gifts. And so I know oftentimes, we, we talk about these dialectical tensions that conform and kind of, you know, they make these spaces kind of adversarial, but what I often try to seek to do as a form of decolonization is take the best from each and seek to bundle these understandings because each has cultural gifts to impart.
Tadd Kruse 59:52
Great, thank you. Thank all three of you. I think those were really great responses to it was a very important question. We have to have The questions are a little more specific. So just ask one or two of you can respond in front of time. The first one is, from one of our panelists, or one of our attendees, I have been considering the idea of African Americans being indigenous to the Americas. But when I attempt to articulate that to non-African Americans, I am challenged. However, based on the definition of indigenous provided at the beginning of this webinar, my theory seems correct. How do you also just communicate this to non-African Americans, or even look at it within scholarship without getting pushback?
Mr. Pura Mgolombane 1:00:31
Thank you, Tadd. I think on this one, I mean, this woman tells us about the danger of a single story. And, and when she speaks about that, she also tells us about where you start the story, a has got an impact, or implication or how you end the story. Right. And I think it is important to start the story from the beginning. And the beginning, indeed, is that the story began in Africa, and then the Native Americans, then were transported as slaves from here to America. And then, of course, then out of that process, then you had a generation of slaves, some of which then, of course, became Native Americans. That is very, very important. And, of course, you know, the issue about the truth is that it hasn’t changed much from those who want to put in that position. So they will still push back. Because recognizing your personality, as you put it, it says something, but it’s not about them, it’s about you, if you know yourself, and know we are located and how you affirm on the ground, that’s sufficient. And then you will be able to move, and therefore by virtue of having been their generations of your ancestors being there you are, and you belong in that space, but is stolen from the beginning. And of course, how you arrived there, which is fundamental to the conversation of decolonization and colonization itself.
Tadd Kruse 1:01:57
Thank you, you know the thing I just want to sort of highlight is that, to me are some themes that have popped out. And we have a great question to close with that let all of you respond to, as you see it. But we’ll start with Charlotte. But the concept of place I think, in the story, I keep hearing resonated a lot of your response, I think those are very important. And also the lens, we talked about that at the very beginning Charlotte, in one of your last points you were talking about sort of from a Western side perspective, versus that from the perspective of looking at things. So I just really appreciate the fact that you are being very open and very sharing with us in these spaces. And I hope people kind of can reflect on some of these, especially as we go into this last question. So the last question is one of our attendees that I’m really interested in Charlotte’s discussion about land acknowledgments, during the well-being dynamic or static, being opportunities for reflection and development of the place, based sensibility. Can you talk more about this process with examples? And I think what we start with Charlotte, and then Raymond and Pura, and add to that number will close.
Dr. Charlotte Davidson 1:03:01
Yeah, no, thank you for that question, Carol, Carol’s a higher education relative, and our common connection is my maternal grandfather, Larry Emerson, um, you know, really, to be honest with you, Carol, I’m probably some of the best examples I have been witnessed, or have had the privilege of witnessing is within spaces that are organized by indigenous peoples. I’m, I’m an active member of various education-related associations. And oftentimes, you know, these processes, which are often, you know, that need to be inclusive of, you know, various forms of indigenous engagement, whether that’s forging relationships with the local, or the people indigenous to the locale, to the indigenous members with Association. It’s, you know, indigenous engagement, engagement is seldom applied beyond, you know, seeking to integrate these land acknowledgments into conference spaces. And so when I talk about this notion of place consciousness, it really comes from a place of struggle, I have honestly yet to see a consistently respectful, respectful way of enacting these placemaking practices in spaces that are not indigenous-centered. And so what I have come to really learn in this process is you know, I really got tired at a point I felt an immense amount of fear teak and trying to build a capacity of organizations to do this work. And what I realized was, you know, what, I need to pivot from that and move in this direction, and really build my own capacity to evolve my own playspace sensibilities about why this work is important. And so I guess, in this process of choosing to struggle, um, you know, I feel like I’ve been able to name those struggles in that, from which I aim to seek which is an involved, you know, sensibility, a place consciousness and trying to, you know, really hone my narrative about what that means for me personally, culturally, politically, and defining that for myself, as opposed to dedicating a lot of labor, a lot of time a lot of unpaid energy, to, to shaping my colleagues, you know, who are well-meaning into place conscious individuals, I really am looking to seek my to seek that understanding more deeply. Myself.
Tadd Kruse 1:06:17
Thank you, Charlotte. Pura or Raymond, do you want to respond to this question at all?
Mr. Pura Mgolombane 1:06:21
Yes, thank you, Tadd, I think I think I think within the context of university student affairs, we speak about, you know, this idea of placemaking is the agenda of the soul. And, and I think the idea there is really, you know, a, we use, if you will, a formula, three, r is equal to f ad infinitum. So we speak about the first r is this idea of a [?] members of the soul, right? And, and the second R, it’s about rehabilitating, you know, the soul itself. And I said, once you rehabilitate the soul, then the soul radiates, which is the third R right? And then once then the soul radiates, then is equal to f, which is about flourishing. So so so so so so and then, in that process, what we are saying, then we’re saying then that we need them to grapple with the three P’s. Now, the first P is a humanizing pedagogy, right? That we look at people as human beings first, right? Before we look at them in any other way, we see a human being in front of us. And of course, the second P is the pedagogy of discomfort, that these conversations and the end and the places are coming from, you know, create discomfort through which we must go. Because material change takes place at the point of discomfort, the point is not to compete about our pains, but it is about recognizing our pains, right? And then of course, then the last one will refer to this idea of what to call a pneumatological pedagogy. That’s then the third P. Now on that one, though, that concept itself is theological, but we’re talking about it not from the [?] sense, but from the sense of saying, we’re looking at ourselves as the soul. And I think that is how then you begin to make this idea of placemaking. And I think, if you move from there, then don’t put much labor on the other. You put much work on yourself in trying to liberate your soul. And once that soul radiates, you will flourish in an infinitum. Then you Tadd.
Tadd Kruse 1:08:33
Great, thank you for at this point in time, we have run out of time, but I would like to give a huge thank you to our panelists to Dr. Charlotte, Dr. Raymond, and Mr. Pura, for joining us from various points around the globe. All of our attendees, spanning I think over half the globe in terms of timezones. I’d also like to thank my co-organizer, Jenny Fam, from ACPA commission for global dimensions. And we hope that you join us for future webinars. We try to do multiple year, it’s the IASAS around the globe series, I think in its third year now. So I want to thank everyone for joining us today, and we look forward to seeing you in future sessions.
Recent Comments