SUMMARY KEYWORDS
investing, international students, credit card, H1-b, money, paperwork, goal, pay, hindsight, financial wellness, people, debt, students, plan, stock market, darlington, academia, options, advice, credit
SPEAKERS
Kay-Anne Darlington, Anna-Kaye Rowe
Anna-Kaye Rowe 00:02
Hello, Dr. Darlington! Thank you so much for joining me today for this very important discussion concerning international students, career wellness and financial management. Today we’re going to have a discussion about these areas, and also talk about some of the myths concerning career planning and money management. So let’s jump right into our questions. So reflecting on your experiences, having navigated graduate school in the United States at the Masters, the masters and doctoral level, how would you describe your general awareness as it relates to career planning and financial wellness?
Kay-Anne Darlington 00:42
Well, I’ll admit that when I started my masters, my plan was not to continue to the PhD. My goal was just to come and do my masters and return home. So my career plan was to go back to Jamaica, and go back into development work, if I wasn’t in terms of awareness, that was my plan. You know, that’s where I was going. Financial wellness, it was a struggle, it’s tough to be in grad school. And so it was initially a struggle, because nobody tells you when you are coming to the US that you need to be aware of your credits, like most other countries don’t operate on the credit system that that it at least my country that I was coming from, we didn’t operate on credit like that. So I never had a credit card, I didn’t have a credit score, none of that information. So I came, and the first roadblock was just getting a phone. I didn’t know anybody here, nobody could put me on their plan. And so I was being told by these phone companies that I had to shell out 500 to $1,000, to put down as a deposit in order to just get a phone. Wow. And so I was like, are you I mean, in Jamaica, you just go buy a phone, you buy a phone and buy some credit, or minutes and put on the phone. That was not a thing when I came, maybe it’s easier now, but I remember when I came, that was the first hurdle I faced just getting a phone. Because I had no credit score, I had no credit history in the country. And so that was incredibly frustrating. I’m thinking it’s a lot easier. Now you can buy prepaid plans, or it’s easier. But still, if you want to be on that kind of plan with a phone company like Verizon, or T Mobile, or any of those other big brands, and you don’t have a credit score, it’s hard. And many international students who are coming in don’t have that. So just navigating all the different rules about how you go about things that was I was thrown in the deep end. But you learn, you know, you talk to other people who’ve been here, and they say, Okay, well, I can add it to my plan. Initially, someone actually added me to their at&t plan. And that’s how I got a phone without having to pay my deposit. Right. And then after I had established credit, I could move off on my own to go get a different phone plan. Just the as grad students, sometimes many of us are coming in, and we’re not, we’re not gonna live on campus, we’re gonna have to rent finding people who want to rent to you as an international student that can affect your finances, because I remember one of the struggles I had was when I came, I had to pay my rent, I had to pay my deposit and my rent for the whole semester.
Anna-Kaye Rowe 03:46
Well, my goodness.
Kay-Anne Darlington 03:48
So I came in August, with I think maybe about 1500 US dollars that all my family and friends had had kind of pulled together and given me as a little gift to go to come with. And I kid you not by the end of August, that money was done between having to pay my deposit and the full like semester rent. So it was at the time it was actually the quarter system. So it was three months when I had to pay for the first quarter. And I’ll say that I’m grateful to the other international students who were here before me, who helped in a lot of ways, and I’m grateful to the community for that. But coming in, these are things that in hindsight, I wish I had known. Right I didn’t know any of this. But you you learn to navigate it and the thing is when you are coming as an international students, you’re already willing to face hurdles and overcome them. So we typically are able to do that. But moving on to the graduate to the PhD level. In terms of career Planning. I’d say that the biggest issue I can think back on for me, and I’ve also had this conversation with other PhD students and graduates is that there is a focus on remaining in academia. If you’re doing your PhD, it’s almost a given. It’s almost an unstated rule that you’re going to continue in academia and continue on to be a professor. Yeah, well, no. Honestly, in hindsight, I wish I’d had more exposure to other options outside of academia. I wish that our we had colloquium and we had conversations, but almost every conversation that we had was about making sure your CV is ready, making sure you have enough publications, making sure you are doing things that will make you a good candidate to be a professor. What if I don’t want to be a professor? Where is the guidance for those of us who might not want to stay in academia. So I feel like that is definitely lacking, it was lacking in my day, and it’s still lacking now. So there needs to be more openness about the reality that not everybody who gets a PhD is going to be able to get a good job as a professor. I know so many people from my cohort are the cohort before the cohort after who their adjuncts, their adjunct in their life away. When other options are available, they could have found other jobs, if their programs had been honest enough with them to say: look, not all of you are going to find a really good tenure track position at our research one that pays you well enough that you feel comfortable, right. And so I think a lot of programs are really doing a disservice to their PhD students in that area.
Anna-Kaye Rowe 06:52
Well, thank you so much, you really dropped some gems and some nuggets, and it’s really so important any emphasize the role of community and it takes a village in your family and friends, being able to, to put together funds that were available, you know, which, which was the best that they could at the time to help you. And I think that story is one that many international students can relate with, you know, family and friends, giving all they have and sending you off with hope, with love, and hoping that everything will work out very well. But and then you come here to the United States, and you’re not aware of all of that is before you just getting a phone, whoa, whoa, incredibly stressful about can be and your points about having a range of options and preparing students for what the real world looks like, because, and being very upfront about that we may not all end up where we wish to be. Thank you so much for sharing that. We’re gonna move on to our next question. There are several myths concerning financial wellness, and students are often very unsure of what the best options are. Some of them are nervous, and they don’t trust the system, and don’t want to make mistakes that other students may have told them about. Because these mistakes can be very costly. And they just don’t know where to begin. Some of these myths often include credit cards are a scam, and they should be avoided. And you touched on this a little bit. And also another common one is that we barely get paid, like where am I supposed to get money from to save in as an international student? What are your thoughts on some of these?
Kay-Anne Darlington 08:21
I would say that coming in the idea of credit cards were scary to me as well. I didn’t necessarily think that they were a scam, I just thought I really do not like that. I don’t like to be in debt. I don’t like to know that I owe people money, and that they’re charging me interest. It is anathema to me, I don’t like it. So I was very hesitant to get a credit card. However, that’s really the only way to establish credit. And if you intend to stay in the country, or even if you don’t intend to stay in the country, like I know people who got credit cards here and they’ve gone back home and they still have their credit cards, you can keep it after you leave. You don’t have to shut it down when you leave. And so whatever your goal or plan is, if you are using credit cards wisely, you can use them to your advantage. So for instance, there are credit cards that give you rewards if you’re going to spend the money anyway you might as well use the reward use a card and get the rewards and get many of them you get straight cashback, cashback that you can use to pay off the same credit card that you’re using or literally get cash to do something else. So that’s one area where if you understand credit and know what you’re doing, you can make it make it useful for yourself. Now, as a master when I was when I started as a master student, I I got a credit card only because I had to I had to get that credit card in order to establish my credit history here in order to move off my friend’s phone plan and make sure I had the opportunity to get my own phone. Now, for me, I didn’t, I didn’t want to I did it. But once I did get a credit card, I made sure that I educated myself. So that’s the next thing. You don’t want to be getting a credit card and then just using it like it’s free money, right?
Anna-Kaye Rowe 10:26
Yes, that is not going to be good for you.
Kay-Anne Darlington 10:28
Exactly. So I was already very, like, apprehensive about getting into debt. So once I got my first credit card, I did my best to use it wisely. Okay, I made sure that I didn’t rack up a lot of debt, because as a grad student, you’re not making a lot of money, you’re getting a stipend in most cases. And that stipend has to cover all the things. And for some people, they have to send money home to their family, right? So you know, you can rack up too much debt on the card. And so for me, I learned that the rule of thumb really is to try to keep your debt utilization below 10%. So if you have a card with a $1,000 limit, try not to put more than $100 on their each month. For me, I wish I put something on it, I knew I was going to pay it off that same month. And so that really helped me to build my credit. And one way to do that, too, is to put something that you are, you can put something that you have to pay for anyway, like a subscription on there. So I do that, I put my smallest subscription on my, the first credit card that I had. And I think it was $5 a month. Yeah, that was the only thing I put on it $5 a month. And I kid you not every year during summer, that credit card company would send me a letter to say congratulations, because of your responsible use of your credit card, we have increased your limit. So every year they increase my limit by 1000, sometimes 2000 until I had a $10,000 limit on my credit card, just by using the card wisely.
Anna-Kaye Rowe 12:13
Good
Kay-Anne Darlington 12:13
Right? So you can use it, it’s not a scam. Actually, you can use it to your benefit to build your credit one. And to make some money off these companies too. Right? You can yes wisely. If you educate yourself on it, if you don’t know, there is a lot of information out there. And I know you’re already focused on a lot with school. But if you can educate yourself and do it wisely. Now, as it concerns investing, that one is a little bit trickier. There are rules about who can invest. Why? As far as I understand it, you can invest as an f1. Student, it just depends on the type of investment. The rules seem to prohibit day trading. But again, as a relatively young investor, myself, I just started investing maybe about three, four years ago, and I’ve been here for almost 14 years now. So yes, so I took the time to learn. And I mean, in grad school, I honestly didn’t have a lot of funds to invest. My goal was saving and paying off my student loan debt. So that’s the first thing just figuring out what your goals are. If your goals involve saving and paying off debt, then focus on that, if you don’t have any debt, and you feel like you can’t invest, focus on that. So there are options, you can do it, even as an international student, you can invest in the US stock market, you can invest in mutual funds, you just have to do the research, one and get the guidance that you need if you don’t have the information, and there are people who will guide you. Like for instance, I know through Vanguard, I invest in Vanguard, one of my investment. I call it the CEO of Vanguard, I just call the customer service. And they told me some good options. And then I picked the options that I liked and invested. Right? If you’re not for me, that’s the one thing if I don’t know something, I’m going to ask somebody, right, I’m going to reach out and get help to do what I want to do if this is my goal. And this is I know a way to achieve that goal, but I’m not sure how to do it. I will reach out and make sure that I get helped to do it. And so that’s that’s advice I would give in terms of investing. If that’s your goal, and you feel like you have the funds to do it. Reach out, get help. Do it. I don’t want to say don’t be scared, but don’t let the fear stop you. Right. That’s it, everybody because when you’re investing, you can lose your money. Right? I had to stop looking at my Personal Capital the other day, because the stock market was not very happy. Okay? Yes. When that’s happening, I just have to stop looking. Just don’t. Don’t look, don’t look, that’s what I tell myself. The lens advice oh my goodness, this is powerful. You’re so right arm yourself with information knowledge is power.
Anna-Kaye Rowe 13:05
Yes, yes.
Kay-Anne Darlington 13:57
And for me, I’m my goal now is more long term, like, I’m not a day trader, I’m not trying to make money immediately. My goal is to keep the money in the stock market because it provides a better return than keeping it in my savings account. Right. And so even if even if the stock market is going down today, my goal is to have that money in the stock market for the next 2030 years. Right? I’m not planning to pull it out anytime soon. So on our whole the stock market, in 2030 years, it typically goes back up, right? Today, it might be falling, but it’s gonna go back up. And I know this. And so I have to just remind myself not to, not to not to look at it, one and not to worry so much, because historically speaking, the stock market tends to go back up, even when it goes even with it crashes. Like I’m not retiring tomorrow, so I won’t need this money tomorrow. My goal is long term. Now your goal might be different, right? You might be trying to make some money immediately. Do the research, know the risks and do what you’re comfortable with.
Anna-Kaye Rowe 16:30
Alright, good. Thank you. That is That is wonderful, really solid advice. Thank you so much Dr. Darlington. Our next question. So another major concern and things that we often hear from international students is that US employers or companies won’t hire or investing in me if I’m an international student. Students are also fearful of disclosing their status when job hunting, what would your response be? What would your advice be? or And briefly, could you share what your experience was like?
Kay-Anne Darlington 17:00
Those are legitimate concerns. The process of hiring an international student, especially in the US, is very hard for employers, especially if they’re not connected to the government. If they’re connected to the government, they can get H1 B visa waivers, and it’s easier to get you on H1 B, but if it’s a private company, it’s a lottery system. So there are 1000s, if not hundreds of 1000s of people who need an H1 visa, but the government only gives so many each year. And so from the perspective of the employer, I understand why they might not be too keen on hiring an international student because one they know it’s a harder, it’s a harder road. Right. And too, if you’re International, the fear might be that you will leave at some point after they’ve invested in you. So I get that fear on the on the part of this international students. But as with what I’ve shared before, don’t let that stop you. Right, do your research. That’s the first thing. A lot of employers when they list the job, they will tell you clearly in the job description, we are not able to file for your paperwork. So they asked you when you fill out the application form? Do you need assistance to get our immigration assistance in order to get paperwork? And if you hit yes to that question, it automatically kicks you out of the list of applicants because they know they can’t do it. So if you see that in the job description, and it’s clear, they made it clear to you that they cannot file for you or help you in any way to get your paperwork, then just know that you can’t apply for that job. Because you don’t want to apply get the job. And then they’re like, “Oh, we thought you had paperwork.” Right? Right. That’s that’s a tough feeling. That’s like, and I know from experience that happened to my partner. There seem to have been some miscommunication about his paperwork. And he literally they gave him the job. And then they were like, Nope, we can’t hire you because we thought you had paperwork. And on his end, he thought they knew he didn’t have paperwork or have work authorization. So you need to look first of all to see what the company can do. And you can typically see that in the job description or when you’re filling out the HR application. The next thing is to be to plan ahead. So many of the times you can have OPD you can get RPT status. And you can start with a company on OPT but you have to make it clear to them from day one that I’m on OPT and you’re going to have to apply for an h1 B. Now if you are in the Higher Ed space, a lot of universities are able to do that for you. And that’s what happened in my case. So I applied for many jobs did many interviews. And when I got an offer, that was one of the first things, I said to them, I am on OPT. So you got to be honest and upfront from day one, I’m on OPT, they didn’t have any restrictions on their application. They didn’t say we can’t file for you. So I, I honestly, any job that said, we can’t help you get your paperwork, I just didn’t apply to any of those. Because I knew that I knew that I would need at least H1 B, they would at least have to apply for my H1 B. So that cut out a lot of options for me. And I knew that I had OPT. First thing I said to HR is I have OPT, it’s only going to go until this date. So you need to get started on the H1 the process immediately. And they were like “okay, yeah, we’ll get started on that”. And the next question I asked is “okay, apart from H1, B, is there anything else you can do in terms of my immigration status?”, and they made it clear on day one, that we can only file for your H1, B, we cannot help you to file for your permanent residence. And I was like, Okay, you’re being honest and upfront, just as I was. So I know where I stand with this company, they can’t help me to get my green card. So I’m going to have to figure out another way if that’s what I want to do, right. And so that was my experience, my partner’s experience was different. Not only did they do H1B, as soon as he got his H1B, they said, “Okay, we’re going to help you file for your green card, you’re going to go through the process”. But they can only go up to a certain point. So after they’ve gotten the H1 B, and they’ve established that, you still have to file for the green card, but like you have to get your own lawyer and do the next step. They can’t officially. Well, at least that was the information that my spouse received from the university that helped him to get his an H1B and then supported him because he, I can’t remember the name of the, it’s not the like it’s a specific category that you apply for the Green Card on. And it related to his work. So they had to provide paperwork to support his claim that this is why he should get a green card, but they couldn’t actually file for the green card for him. So the biggest thing that I want you to take away from this, though, is that you just need to be honest and upfront, and be aware of the things you will need to do in order to get get the job that you want one. And if you want to stay in the US to get on the path to citizenship. So it just depends on your goal. There are a lot of people who don’t really want to stay in the US they want to work for a while, get some experience and return home faster case, you look at all the options that are available to you. And look for the ones that will not clearly state that we won’t help you with your immigration status. Because some people want some companies won’t even file for H1 B for you, because it just doesn’t make financial sense for them. So it’s like with anything else, you’ve got to do the research. And make sure that you are applying to companies that can help you if you need help. If you don’t need help, and you only want to do your OPT and then leave, then that’s that’s a different story. You make sure that you apply for your OPT early enough so that you can get it by the time you’re applying for jobs. Or even sometimes you have to apply for the job before you get the OPT. But you know that by the time you have gotten to the stage where you have that job, you should have got to look at the timelines because the time is taking so much longer now to get process. So work with your international student office and find out the timeline. If that’s your goal, and you’re here in year one, find out in year one, sit down with your international advisor and say, okay, when I’m done with my program, this is my goal. How do I get to that goal? Right, you’ve got to think ahead and plan don’t wait until you’re about to graduate. And then you’re like, oh my gosh, I’m about to graduate. What do I do? That’s too late. Yes, that is too late because you have to apply for OPD months in advance. So you’ve got to plan ahead, think and plan ahead and talk to the people who are there to help you. See, yes. All right. If you’re thinking about this, as you’re about to graduate, it’s far too late. You you really really hit it home. Exactly.
Anna-Kaye Rowe 24:57
Thank you. And we’re so we’re gonna wrap up. I know you’ve shared so much already. But what closing comments would you have? Or if you have to offer one solid piece of advice to students, and you’ve already dropped so many gems to international students, or something that you wish you had started to do much sooner? What would that be? Thank you so much Dr. Darlington, and you touched on so many important points about just being upfront, be honest with yourself, but also be honest with the employers, it helps no one when we lie throughout the process. And you know, it saves us both time. And brilliant because I saw someone share on LinkedIn recently that international students and international folks who are hiring, it really is much more efficient for you to stay at whether you are willing to support international applicants or not, you know, having them go through the wringer and go through three stages of interviews and all of this to get their hopes up and your hopes up. And then to to know that you’re not able to support them going forward and waste both their time and yours. And so as much as possible, if we can include that. So students know that this is not something I should pursue, move on to other things. Honestly, I wish I’d started investing sooner. That was my thing. But as I mentioned earlier, it just the goals that I had, I felt like I had to follow a certain path to get to those goals. But in hindsight, I could have multitask. Okay, I could have been investing while also working on paying off debt. And truthfully, that was that was kind of tied to some of the information that I read. And so I’ve been reading a lot of books about investing and financial wellness and personal growth in that area. And so in hindsight, I wish I hadn’t followed the advice of one particular person so strictly, right. Um, so I would say, try to get more than one perspective as it concerns, finances on wellness, don’t tie yourself to one particular advisor or one particular school of thought, because with me, I really, I really, I really followed the Dave Ramsey plan, he has this baby steps plan. And this this the baby steps is, you’ve got to, first of all, pay off your debt. And then after you pay off your debt, then you can vase on it. So he has a very strict rule about how he likes to guide his clients. And I tried to follow that to the tee. But it doesn’t always work for everyone. And so you have to find what works for you. If, nothing else, that is what I want students to think about, find what works for you. You don’t have to follow this plan, exactly as it is. It might have worked for him and some of his clients. But again, he’s not an international student, and many of his clients aren’t international students. So they they don’t know what would work for you, you have to find a path that works for you. And it might take a little bit of research and a little bit more effort on your part. But yes, in hindsight, that’s the one thing I wish I had done. I wish I’d started investing sooner, because I try not to think about the money that I would have made, I would have earned already. Yes, let’s let’s not think about that. That’s an excellent note on which to end to plan ahead to understand that or process and or path will not be linear and to be open to multiple perspectives. Really solid advice for not just career planning, but also financial wellness. If I may, on the part of the career planning, I’d say find a mentor slash sponsor, find someone in the area where you want to go and build that relationship. Don’t just reach out to them when you need something, build that relationship and seek their mentorship and guidance, because it doesn’t make sense to reinvent the wheel. Okay, there are people out there who know the steps that you need to take to get to where you want to go, tap into those resources. And you will be that’s that’s also one area where I felt was a little bit lacking for me that I don’t really have that mentorship and specific guidance in terms of just figuring out where I want to go. So it’s been it’s been tough because you’re figuring it out basically by yourself, unfortunately. But if you know if you have an idea of the direction where you want to go, whether in academia or outside of it. That is one thing that I wish someone had told me. When I started, find a mentor find a sponsor. And it doesn’t have to be one person, it can be multiple, because they can really open doors for you. Absolutely. I like how you frame that a spot mentor slash sponsor, because a lot of the they’re not synonymous. They’re two different individuals who served two different roles. And it’s so important and we don’t talk about this enough or early enough, so important to cultivate that. And it may not be someone at your institution, it may not even be someone in the United States will be open to those mentorship relationships. Thank you so much. Thank you, I can’t evaluate. I wish we could continue talking. But we have to wrap up and this was such an incredible episode and podcasts and you really shared valuable perspectives that I I’ve learned a lot I always learn a lot from you. And I’ve been challenged and motivated and probably to start investing myself. So this is excellent. I want to thank you so much for taking time to share with us today. And for recording this, this episode with for the commission and I know a lot of international students will be encouraged as well. And, and will have sort of a guide and the things they need to start doing to prepare for their future. You know, we have to start sowing the seeds today that we could reap tomorrow. So Dr. Darlington, once again, thank you so much for joining us today. And I look forward to us continuing to have similar conversations like these in the future. Thank you so much. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Kay-Anne Darlington 31:28
Thank you for having me.
Recent Comments